Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Howard Draw locale F1 female....

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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

The future mate for the Speckled Black Gap female......

This one is going to be a stunning adult imho!

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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

John
Now that blairs is my kind of critter, a twin to the one I have.Beautiful!
The male I reserve judgment until I get used to the 'New to me stuff'.
As for the mex mex-
"One day there should be black mex mex with pink saddles,speckles and even stripes......I think it will take a long time though."
WHY.....I hope it takes until I am six feet under.
theOLDherper
Pete

>>John
>>Now that blairs is my kind of critter, a twin to the one I have.Beautiful!
>>The male I reserve judgment until I get used to the 'New to me stuff'.
>>As for the mex mex-
>>"One day there should be black mex mex with pink saddles,speckles and even stripes......I think it will take a long time though."
>>WHY.....I hope it takes until I am six feet under.
>>theOLDherper
>>Pete

LOL......Thanks for the alterna compliment Pete.....

Mex Mex are so underappreciated......I have to spice them up......They are one of my favorite subspecies of all time next to thayeri........

Mind you all these will come from pure animals that have the potential in their genetic makeup already....Nothing I did or will do......
Mother Nature did it......I am just selectively propagating as EVERYONE here does and ANYONE that has ever allowed two animals to breed without them choosing their mates.......Maybe some time long ago these mutations were roaming the earth then absorbed in the wild.....That is why they still lie hidden in them........LOL
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

>>......Maybe some time long ago these mutations were roaming the earth then absorbed in the wild.....That is why they still lie hidden in them........LOL

You LOL that, but i think it's a hypothesis worth considering whenever we discuss "morphs"--at one time, some of the "morphs" may have been the normals. This would seem to be particularly likely with recessive traits, where today's wild-types are dominant to them: obviously a dominant morph would overtake what preceded it in the wild.

>>You LOL that, but i think it's a hypothesis worth considering whenever we discuss "morphs"--at one time, some of the "morphs" may have been the normals. This would seem to be particularly likely with recessive traits, where today's wild-types are dominant to them: obviously a dominant morph would overtake what preceded it in the wild.

I concur......
I LOL'd that just to be nice....And I didn't want to sound like I was teaching when I am always trying to learn things.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

I remember finding "hypo" kings as a kid. We didn't think anything of it, in fact, we'd laugh at one another for catching "ugly" kings. hahaha A nice normal with lots of contrast was the prize of the day.

John
I would like to change the subject a bit here. You mention things that may lay hidden, a while back I tried to bring up this matter when Nate Godin posted photos of his odd black milksnake hatchling. It looked exactly like the hybrid imperials that Mesazoic Reptiles had. My qustion was could this be some kind of an ancient pattern showing up or just coinsidence?
I never recieved any respose.
theOLDherper
Pete

>>John
>>I would like to change the subject a bit here. You mention things that may lay hidden, a while back I tried to bring up this matter when Nate Godin posted photos of his odd black milksnake hatchling. It looked exactly like the hybrid imperials that Mesazoic Reptiles had. My qustion was could this be some kind of an ancient pattern showing up or just coinsidence?
>>I never recieved any respose.
>>theOLDherper
>>Pete

I could not answer that without seeing the Black Milk in question or by not knowing the solid lineage on the animal.....

I have seen the Mesozoic Imperial stuff but they were the result of tangling genetic DNA from multiple species/subspecies, not from line breeding a specific breed.

Could it be that you think the Imperial Hybrids were expressing relic genes from a southern grandparent Lampropeltis from long ago?

When talking Mexicana this arises at times.......We may never know but I think there is something to the "South to North" genetic drift theory.......They are only my reasons and opinions though.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Yeah, I remember his nice aberrant gaigeae. Although it DID look very similar, Mesozoic's Imperial was simply the result of hybridization, and Nate's was simply a "fluke" anomaly that happens now and then for whatever reason(s) within an organism's genetic code.

Some things to the human eye just tend to "look" basically identical some times, when in fact they are actually VERY different.

My take??.......the "Imperial" was simply pure "junk", while Nate's aberrant gaigeae was simply, well...."pure"..LOL!

Don't hate people..LOL!, just my personal opinion of course

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

O.K. But to my old eyes they looked almos identical.
It was like breeding a pair of great danes and pairing a heinz 57 and poodle and getting wolf cubs in both litters.LOL
theOLDherper
Pete

John, thanks for posting your more classic specimens for those of us that just don't "get" some of the pattern variations.

I've been planning a post since my comment on your speckled alterna showing that even if I may not always get it... I am subject to it, and since Pete brought it up...

This past week end I finally picked up a second Black Milk with a fairly extensive striped/aberrant pattern, nothing like Nate's as his is almost perfectly striped except for bands in the subcaudal region. The ultimate goal as I'm sure you can figure is to breed those two down the road and see if striped BM's can be produced.

Now you want to talk about "I don't get it"... striped BM's... WTF for?

Best of luck with your striped project... I do have a weakness for those... lol

Gerry

Gerry
That's great! At least they don't stay striped. Now if all those others would revert to their natural patterns as they mature------------
LOL
theOLDherper
Pete

there is the slippery slope... there is nothing unnatural about striped BM's... both came from the normal/classic/whatever banded parents... just came out a little different same as the speckled alterna as John has pointed out.

Only point I wanted to make is even though I point at that speckled and many other variations and say "I don't get it"... I can point right back at myself and say the very same thing about my possible future project and see why others would also say it. I mean after all... a striped BM? Uhmm... you know later on they'll just be... well... black you know...

As long as there's no outright hybridizing to achieve these various patterns what's the harm?

Anyway, time to have a look at my poly'z again

Gerry

btw... really great that everyone's putting in their two cents and it's all staying civil.

LOL!!,...that was pretty funny the way you put it too

true irony at it's best!........"do as I SAY people!, not as I DO!! ".........HAHAA!

Yeah, not a hodge-podge composite of man-made crap, all is good,....same exact ssp., all is good in my book!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

at myself, heaven knows there's a good deal to laugh about, but to clarify...

I never said or even implied that John shouldn't do whatever he wants with that speckled. After seeing the direction the thread was going it occurred to me I should have said in my first post I simply don't see what he does in that pattern variation, never meant to suggest I thought his speckled was anything but a natural variation.

It can be difficult to make a comment here, the use of a word, or phrase, or simply not being very specific can all too often be misinterpreted since we all hear things in a slightly different way... but if you think you've heard me making fun of myself... you've heard correctly

Gerry

Yeah, Gerry, I agree with all of that too. Text alone is many times hard to interpret.

And yes, a few good chuckles are great to have too!..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I "get it", although I used to didn't! 'till I hatched out a nearly speckle-less speckled king! Again, what's the point? I dunno, guess you had to be there to see the whole clutch and how they are turning out.

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Todd Hughes

then there was this...?

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Todd Hughes

WOW!WOW!
Nice, where do i get one?

John,

That is a great looking Blairs. I love the orange saddles on the dark background. Good looking Blairs has always made my knees week.

Carl

>>John,
>>
>>That is a great looking Blairs. I love the orange saddles on the dark background. Good looking Blairs has always made my knees week.
>>
>>Carl
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

You're tormenting me again John.
Nice looking snakes.
4lakessnakes.com

>>You're tormenting me again John.
>>Nice looking snakes.
>>4lakessnakes.com
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com