Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Didn't really breed a lot this year, and a lot of what I bred I decided to keep for a year. But, this past week I sold some snakes.

People want absolutely nothing to do with paying shipping. I was contacted quite a lot about my ads, and the minute I responded shipping wasn't included in price (fair market price at that), I never heard from them again. So, I decided, in order to move the snakes, and since I'm not completely motivated by the money of it, to include shipping.

Set up the shipping and was shocked to see that both boxes I sent out this week were over $70 to ship. Heck, a few years ago I bought snakes and had them air freighted to me for not much more than that. These same destinations were $45-$55 not much more than a year ago. Really puts a hurt on those of us who can't really attend shows.

On a side note, I'm shocked by how many people thought that shipping would be included whey you put, say, $150 on a snake that is absolutely worth that price. It can't be common practice to just lose half of the snakes worth to ship. I know I have never expected that when buying.
-----
Brian Suter

www.serpenteer.com

I couldn't have said it better myself! I noticed all of the very same things. If it gets to be $100 to ship overnight in five years, no one will be having much shipped to them.

Tim

Have the prices jumped drastically in the last month or so? I know I shipped some Corns to Virginai a few weeks ago and from florida it was 37 bucks!
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

No, that is probably right. Did you ship priority overnight, or standard overnight. That is about a $10 difference there. And VA and FL aren't as far apart. For example, It was going to be $47 for me to ship to AL. But it was $73 & $76 to UT and AL. (priority prices)
-----
Brian Suter

www.serpenteer.com

What did you use? The postal service?
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

.
-----
Brian Suter

www.serpenteer.com

No shipping labels can even be printed now with SYR, or Reptiles Express at ALL!. Both their sites are closed for shipping, and their home page is blank.

I got a FedEx account man, screw all that other UPS nonsense!

It sucks that the cost is so much more, but what the hell can ya do?. At least it will get there.

I knew it wouldn't take long at all for these companies to shut-down for whatever the reasons, and then they post a message on the website like they are going to take care of things in very short order, and things will continue as normal again........yeah.....sure thing folks.

Oh!, but they will still sell you shipping "SUPPLIES" though!!..LMFAO!!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I was just in contact with Reptile Express last week? That sucks I really liked that shipper. I hope they get it fixed soon. Guess i'll have to get a Fed Ex account too just to be safe? It really sucks that Fed Ex has no competition in this area! Competition allows for competative prices.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Yeah, the cost is absolutely insane, and like you said, a manopoly opens the door for the "sky" being the limit. As other's have already mentioned, the prices keep increasing at the rate freakin "sea kelp" grows off the coast of California!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

.........D'OH!!!
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

let me just make this suggestion.....without starting a war....

I'm pretty sure Governmental agencies have a hand in all this. (Parks and Wildlife, Fish and Wildlife, state and federal). It's a way they can keep a handle on what is being shipped where. MANY of the boxes being shipped are being opened and contents verified.
In some cases known herpetologists are being consulted to verify identities of the contents.

It's just one more way the man is coming down on us.

not to mention, these boxes are loaded onto airplanes, and we know what that security detail is like these days. so there is more than one reason why they are worried about what is in the boxes.

Yeah, there ain't no way they let just any ol' box jump onto an airplane now days........just no freakin way!

Your other statement has to be true to a very great degree as well. At this day and age, it is only logical to assume this happens on a daily basis all over the world.

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I consider myself very fortunate that the breeders I have been getting my pyro snakes from live within driving distance. When they do ship it is only about 25 dollars as they are so close.

Shipping is a necessary evil; the snakes can't be teleported to us! Scotty, beam me up! LOL!
-----
Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

Out of curiosity, what did you find to be the most economical means of shipping? I may be needing to do some myself.

--Dennis

I remember when I first started shipping overnight around 10 years ago, it would cost about $30 to ship from Indiana to Washington state. My average cost was around $23 for priority overnight. It's now about triple that in most cases. I learned very quickly to use space efficient boxes to save on costs. The parcel companies use demensional weight not actual weight. Depending on what I have to ship, I try to use 8x7x6 boxes. It is a necessary evil though.
-----
www.brandonosbornereptiles.com

For the buyer, more than one little animal will fit in a small box, so I usually try to buy more than one animal at a time, as the shipping will be the same up to about four small deli cups generally. Saving on shipping this way is a "good" argument for getting multiple snakes at once!
-----
Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

>>For the buyer, more than one little animal will fit in a small box, so I usually try to buy more than one animal at a time, as the shipping will be the same up to about four small deli cups generally. Saving on shipping this way is a "good" argument for getting multiple snakes at once!
>>-----
>>Bob/Chris
>>Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

Very true. It's also best to use the smallest container possible to keep the animals from bouncing around. The size boxes I've used in the past I could fit anywhere from 4-6 baby colubrids inside.

Also, from what I've heard from friends that have worked at both UPS and FedEx, they sometimes have box kicking contests....especially if it has a fragile sticker on it. Unless you opt for extra insurance, I would advise anyone against putting fragile stickers on your shipments.
-----
www.brandonosbornereptiles.com

Also, from what I've heard from friends that have worked at both UPS and FedEx, they sometimes have box kicking contests....especially if it has a fragile sticker on it. Unless you opt for extra insurance, I would advise anyone against putting fragile stickers on your shipments.
That is horrible! If I ever caught somebody doing that I would rat them out to management in a heartbeat, although ratting anybody out generally goes against my principles.

-----
Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

And even if they are not rough on purpose, it's not like your animals are being delivered on the wings of a dove...
-----
Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

I work at my local airport, and one of my duties is fueling the FedEx planes. While the fuel is pumping I watch the guys literally throw boxes with "Fragile" and the "this way up" arrows into the lower cargo hold. I always make sure my snakes are well packed to minimize the jarring from the apathetic handlers, since I know no amount of neon stickers will cause a handler to actually care.
-----
Aubrey Ross

�
www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

I've paid as little as $38 this year and as high as $68.....With FedEx......I wouldn't use any other shipping company.......

I charge a flat rate of $50 just for this reason......
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

I just started buying snakes and because I have been on the selling end of other items I get the shipping rate. My suggestion is to price your snakes with the shipping cost built in. I have had great success with this and one person I bought my snake from had done so. I think if someone sees a cost, mentally it looks like so much more to them if say they see $125 $50 shipping vs the photo with $175 under it. Then want comes in to play and they think the animal is worth $175 (to them)and will purchase it. Also to market this have in large font that prices include shipping.
Just my 2 cents.

Like John, I am in Texas, and I ship Fedex priority, and have not had anything cost more than $56.00 to ship, east or west. In state runs about $35.00. I am shipping small colubrids, so my box size is 8x8x8 or 8x8x12, and that helps. The larger box is usually about $5.00 more expensive than the 8x8x8.
-----
Greg Jackson

Try getting a FedEx account, and get certified to be a reptile shipper. With a regular sized box, I usually don't have to pay more than $55-$60 to ship, unless it goes over 4 pounds. They give you a discount for having an account. Not much, but it helps.

Another trick I've found with FedEx to save $$ is this... if your customer lives near an Express pick up location, send the box standard overnight and have them hold it for pick-up at the location. Your customer may have to drive a few miles in the morning, but if it means the difference of $10-$20 on shipping they may not complain.

I do this for myself quite often when receiving animals, because not only is it cheaper, but I can pick it up about 2 hours earlier than if delivered to my home. Especially helpful if it is a very cold morning.
-----
Aubrey Ross

�
www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

>>Try getting a FedEx account, and get certified to be a reptile shipper. With a regular sized box, I usually don't have to pay more than $55-$60 to ship, unless it goes over 4 pounds. They give you a discount for having an account. Not much, but it helps.
>>
>>Another trick I've found with FedEx to save $$ is this... if your customer lives near an Express pick up location, send the box standard overnight and have them hold it for pick-up at the location. Your customer may have to drive a few miles in the morning, but if it means the difference of $10-$20 on shipping they may not complain.
>>
>>I do this for myself quite often when receiving animals, because not only is it cheaper, but I can pick it up about 2 hours earlier than if delivered to my home. Especially helpful if it is a very cold morning.
>>-----
>>Aubrey Ross

This is a very good option when available! I like going to get it rather than waiting till the delivery truck shows up!
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Shipping using any service other than priority overnight or shipping to an address zoned residential can cause them to revoke your waiver. We all have gotten away with it but in light of the two third party UPS shippers being shut out at the moment and the amount of time it took to get approved to ship Fed Ex I have refrained from doing either.

Isn't it almost impossible to avoid shipping to a residential address? Seems like a tough one.
-----
Brian Suter

www.serpenteer.com

Almost, but if you read your waiver it is there “Company acknowledges that all shipments tendered to FedEx under this Agreement are for Business to Business delivery only. No residential deliveries are allowed under this Agreement” It does not matter if it is a home business either if it is zoned residential Fed Ex can pull your waiver. I drop my shipments off at the hub and will have them held for pick-up at the local station if I can’t ship it to a business address. I have no control over someone saying they are at a business address and really are not but I think I am going to start checking a little closer on that as well.

I really didn't know about the residential restriction? So that cuts out about 90% of our market then!
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I don't know if somebody already mentioned this but it's the fuel prices. When prices went way up a couple years ago for jet fuel, overnight shipping went way up too. I guess it didn't cause much of a dent in the numbers of packages being shipped so they must have kept the prices high even though fuel prices have come down a bit.

That's another reason why I wholesale most of my stuff now. You put all this effort into making an ad and answering emails and giving descriptions. Then when you think you have made a sale the haggling begins, lol. I guess there's nothing really wrong with that, it can be a fun process if you have the time to work with it. Sometimes you can even bump up the sales by offering bigger discounts if they buy more. Still it can be very disheartening when you have put alot of time and effort into something and you can't find someone who thinks it's worth as much as you do. I just needed a break from it and I have found wholesaling to be a great option. At least I don't feel insulted when a retailer expects to pay super low prices.

With wholesaling I still get to have the fun of seeing all the little babies hatch and I can still keep the stuff I want for future breeding. Those are the real reasons most of us breed anyways, not for the money. Then whatever you or a few close friends don't want just goes out the door and you can focus on your own animals.

Also I have never done well at shows. There are so many small breeders like me who just don't want to come home with anything that we all drop prices really low at the end of the show. The buying public knows they can get a deal if they wait until the end of the show. Shows are just fun for socializing and window shopping, IMHO. I would not count on getting good money for anything at a show except on the best of the best. If you really have something outstanding then having people see it in person does sometimes help you get a better price. But for the most part the shows I've been to you don't get high prices.
-----
www.hcu-tx.org/

I would say I did not spend about $400 this year on snakes largely because of shipping costs, well the economy, but the shipping cost broke the deal. Seller would not give in, so he is feeding those snakes now. A friend of mine said a similar thing. So between just two people, that is around $800 not funneled into the hobby. My wife is overcome with joy.
-----
Mark

Mark,

So am I reading into this right? You blame the seller for not "giving in"? So, in my case, you think I should just eat the $76 to ship, add to that around $10 for box, heat pack, and deli cups (though I consider this the cost of doing business).

One of the ads I had up, was a $100 snake, tops. I thought about asking $75. Yes, people backed away after I said shipping was not included. So, did you really expect me to basically give the snake away free? Or am I reading your response wrong.

The amazing thing is, several times I offered to split the shipping 50/50, and still people said no. How do you get more fair than that?

On a side note, you said, "so he is feeding those snakes now." I can tell you that the $70 - $80 I would give up in price would be much more than the cost of feeding a few snakes.
-----
Brian Suter

www.serpenteer.com

Not at all - I don't blame anyone for anything. This is a hobby, not an essential. I don't care if the seller stands firm. May not be the right economy for that, but whatever - his animals, his efforts, his choice on price. Just saying, the elevated ship price is daunting and affects buyers (not just myself either).
-----
Mark

I certainly agree the shipping prices have an effect.

The thing is, maybe it's just me, but it seems that some common sense could come into play. If I see a seller offering an animal at a fair market price, I have NEVER expected them to eat the shipping cost. Why would I? I'm the one interested in buying it, I'm the one looking for the product. Do people get online with a major retail store, want to order something, then try to haggle free shipping?

An ad I had up recently was for a $100 snake. It was worth $75-$125 without question. I try to answer every email I get. I got TONS TONS TONS of responses asking what the shiping cost would be to this or that zip code. The answer came back $55-$75 each time. The vast majority responded back, "So, can you just include that in the price of $100." Even when I said I'd split it, I never heard from them again.

Really? I wouldn't have even asked that if I knew that was a fair price for the snake. Maybe can you take $10 or $20 less (which I don't know if I've ever done), but never the entire cost of shipping. Now, if I'm buying $1000 animal, I've had that happen, but even then rarely. But on a $100 snake, c'mon.

I realize the economy is bad and this is a hobby not an essential. But, if that's the case, and it's hurting a person buying a snake, maybe the snake isn't in their price range to begin with if they expect the seller to knock off up to 75% of the fair market price.

I really don't sell many animals, but I buy plenty. I can say for sure that the shipping prices hurt the seller more than the buyer. A buyer just asks about an animal, either wants it or not, end of story. The seller has invested in the original animals, taken the efforts to breed and raise the young, pays the money for the ad on kingnsnake and manages the responses (95% of which lead nowhere). But in the end, people act like they're crazy for expecting someone to pay shipping costs. I guess I just don't get it.

Believe me, I hate the prices, and it's why I have offered to split them. If someone doesn't want to pay them, I have absolutely no issue with that, and I don't blame them. Just don't act like the seller doesn't understand the economy because he won't back off. Sometimes it's just too much to ask.
-----
Brian Suter

www.serpenteer.com

The fact that you actually had people ask you if the shipping price could be included in the asking fair market price of your $100 snake is ridiculous. Whenever I have purchased snakes that needed to be shipped, the shipping cost remained what it was: The shipping cost!!!! It wasn't even a thought, on my end, to see if the price would be including the shipping, especially on cheaper animals.
-----
Genesis 1:1

The cost of getting the animal TO the buyer...is ON THE BUYER!

I ain't gonna haggle around with shipping costs,...if the customer doesn't want to pay it, the snake isn't going anywhere,...simple as that!.

Now if I were asking ridiculously high prices for my animals, there could be some room for negotiation with shipping, but I don't, so there isn't!...

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com