Reptile & Amphibian Forums

For all the doubters, smart guys and the rest..better pics.

np

Jeff...you have PURPLE hair??
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Scott MacLeod
2.6 Snow Hondurans
1.1 Aberrant Snow Hondurans
2.4 Aberrant Hondurans
1.3 Aberrant Tangerine Hondurans
1.2 Aberrant Hypo Hondurans
0.1 Aberrant Hybino Honduran
1.3 Extreme Hypo VP
1.1 Tricolor Hypo VP
0.1 Hypo E Sinaloan
1.0 Het Hypo E & Amel Sinaloan
0.1 Amel het Hypo E and Splotched
1.1 Albino Striped Sinaloan
2.7 Striped Splotched Sinaloan
1.2 Poss Het T pos Sinaloan
1.2 T pos Sinaloan

The female of the species, guess they are alot more common around my area than your area. Your welcome! ROFLMAO!!

np

np

Yikes!!

Thats a Girl?? Glad that is far away from my locale...
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Scott MacLeod
2.6 Snow Hondurans
1.1 Aberrant Snow Hondurans
2.4 Aberrant Hondurans
1.3 Aberrant Tangerine Hondurans
1.2 Aberrant Hypo Hondurans
0.1 Aberrant Hybino Honduran
1.3 Extreme Hypo VP
1.1 Tricolor Hypo VP
0.1 Hypo E Sinaloan
1.0 Het Hypo E & Amel Sinaloan
0.1 Amel het Hypo E and Splotched
1.1 Albino Striped Sinaloan
2.7 Striped Splotched Sinaloan
1.2 Poss Het T pos Sinaloan
1.2 T pos Sinaloan

Well, now that I can see it without rubbing my watering eyes, I can plainly see it is a triangulum..LOL!

Did you buy it from him?

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>>For all the doubters, smart guys and the rest..better pics.
>>

Pretty funny that my first response to Frank's pictures calling out your involvment and saying it looked pretty typical disappeared, huh Jeff. You're a real piece of work.
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Joe

Oh, and please do tell us more about Frank's snake.
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Joe

Joe, I'm gonna tell you exactly how this happened because you seem so keen on it. INSTEAD of bashing the new guy for out of focus pics and calling it a prarie king(maybe thats where your albino came from??)I PMd the guy and found out he was from a couple towns away. I met up with him and took some new pics. As far as your post you may remember the last bru haha that came from another less than great IDer not being able to ID a snake in her own backyard. Remember? You will also see that Cindy has been monitoring the forums for TOS no nos, which a non-provoked personal attack certainly is. I wont apologize for your infinite wisdom being deleted, but knock off the personal attacks and you will find your posts stay up longer. Dont be that "piece of work" that showed up in your last post.....

>>Joe, I'm gonna tell you exactly how this happened because you seem so keen on it. INSTEAD of bashing the new guy for out of focus pics and calling it a prarie king(maybe thats where your albino came from??)I PMd the guy and found out he was from a couple towns away. I met up with him and took some new pics. As far as your post you may remember the last bru haha that came from another less than great IDer not being able to ID a snake in her own backyard. Remember? You will also see that Cindy has been monitoring the forums for TOS no nos, which a non-provoked personal attack certainly is. I wont apologize for your infinite wisdom being deleted, but knock off the personal attacks and you will find your posts stay up longer. Dont be that "piece of work" that showed up in your last post.....

OK. I certainly didn't "bash" the "new" guy for out of focus pics. I made light of someone else's inability to take good photos and asked for clearer photos from the poster so we could better understand what he was photographing. And that hurt your feelings??? A "non-provoked personal attack" of one's ability to take a photo, lol.

So I question you on the significance of the milks from the island, and make light of your photography skills and then this huh? What exactly is it that you are insinuating about where the albino came from???? Yes Jeff, you are a real piece of work.
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Joe

OK. I certainly didn't "bash" the "new" guy for out of focus pics. I made light of someone else's inability to take good photos and asked for clearer photos from the poster so we could better understand what he was photographing. And that hurt your feelings??? A "non-provoked personal attack" of one's ability to take a photo, lol.

Joe, great picture taking ability is NOT a prerequisit in using this forum!! Insinuating a milk is either a "prarie king", "escapee" or that someone "sinister" is behind the post is too much for someone that is a newby. My efforts were to HELP a newby not scare him away, yours were somethings altogether different obviously. If you cant ID a milksnake maybe you should just say "I dont know" next time right? Geez.

So I question you on the significance of the milks from the island, and make light of your photography skills and then this huh? What exactly is it that you are insinuating about where the albino came from???? Yes Jeff, you are a real piece of work.

Joe, you question the significance of snakes you know nothing about other than the pics you have seen(and complained about). You make light of photo skills, ok, then I will dance on you about misIDing a snake that you could have found in your backyard! YES, continue on and the rampant rumor of a albino prarie king/eastern milk hybrid will certainly get a chuckle out of me everytime the same way some of this stuff does you. At least I'm consistent, just as I came to see you I went to see this new type of milk more for meeting the new guy as much as taking new pics. There simply arent enough new dedicated milkheads in the hobby and I do my best to try and HELP them. I assure you nothing that you have posted in any of these threads could help a newby herper and frankly are out of character based on your history. If you want to mock me or post gratuitously just PM people so the newbys dont have to see this crap ok? -----

I never mis IDed this snake genius, as there was not enough information from the poor quality of the original photographs. I never IDed the snake as anything, although I did say it looked pretty typical from the original photo that was posted.
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Joe

"I guess it could be an escapee"

Joe, do you want us to believe you thought it was a Eastern milk "escapee"?? And the "all mighty" wasnt behind the whole post as you had assumed....but maybe he came in at the end to clear things up and make things right?? YUP. Genius.

""I guess it could be an escapee"
>>
>>Joe, do you want us to believe you thought it was a Eastern milk "escapee"??"

Where exactly did I say This Jeff???? Put some more words in my mouth.

"And the "all mighty" wasnt behind the whole post as you had assumed....but maybe he came in at the end to clear things up and make things right?? YUP. Genius."

Yep, you're a regular Legend in your own mind! Continue on.
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Joe

You know Jeff, this thread has gotten a bit comical. I find it strange you're so bent out of shape. The photo of the "unusual eastern milk" was of such poor quality, much like some of your photos from the past, that a proper identification couldn't be made. I for one never read any snotty comments to the poster from Joe. But the one reference to you as the photographer was rather funny.
You can laugh at that can't you? You make fun of your own photos at times. Now you get all butt hurt over a witty remark?

Jeff wrote:
Joe, great picture taking ability is NOT a prerequisit in using this forum!!

You're right about that, but a good photo sure helps in identifying a snake when a new person comes in asking for help to identify it.

Jeff also wrote:
or that someone "sinister" is behind the post

My efforts were to HELP a newby not scare him away

Sinister? Really? You read a lot more in to this post then I did.

Dude, in the past you have unloaded on and "Scared away" more newbies here then any poster on the milk forum. Unrepentantly I might add.

Maybe you're trying to turn over a new leaf, I hope so, but from past experiences w/ you I'll be surprised if it takes.

-Dell

You know Jeff, this thread has gotten a bit comical. I find it strange you're so bent out of shape. The photo of the "unusual eastern milk" was of such poor quality, much like some of your photos from the past, that a proper identification couldn't be made. I for one never read any snotty comments to the poster from Joe. But the one reference to you as the photographer was rather funny.
You can laugh at that can't you? You make fun of your own photos at times. Now you get all butt hurt over a witty remark?

Dell, I'm not hurt and the remark wasnt all that witty. It was however not in compliance with the TOS of this site. Sure, I have laughed at my pics many times, but at least keep the comments within the boundaries of my thread. I mean I dont talk about how goofy looking you are in random threads do I? LOL

Jeff wrote:
Joe, great picture taking ability is NOT a prerequisit in using this forum!!

You're right about that, but a good photo sure helps in identifying a snake when a new person comes in asking for help to identify it.

Dell, when a new person has correctly ID'd the snake in question it would be nice to see someone say "you may just have something interesting there". Without the guesses, "escapee" crap and piling on insults.

Jeff also wrote:
or that someone "sinister" is behind the post

My efforts were to HELP a newby not scare him away

Sinister? Really? You read a lot more in to this post then I did.

Dell, I used "sinister" in quotes as Joe used it first, I was quoting him. Technically you cant quote a quote.

Dude, in the past you have unloaded on and "Scared away" more newbies here then any poster on the milk forum. Unrepentantly I might add.

Dell, you can look up the history in the forum and see exactly where I STARTED with anyone. As you know, its me that gets crapped on first and I will be darned if I dont get on here and defend myself or my animals.

Maybe you're trying to turn over a new leaf, I hope so, but from past experiences w/ you I'll be surprised if it takes.

Dell, again look at the history. The worst thing I have ever said to a newby is "go get some books and READ". I still dont think that as bad advice, and I wish more of them took me up on it. I try to start interesting threads for some intelligent conversation but too often this bickering is where it ends up. Newbies asking me for pics of snakes released 2-5 years ago is ridiculous. Posting about "pure" honduran morphs makes me respond with a fishing lure line....followed by Doug's awesome pic! Maybe you forget the honest attempts I have made to talk about locality specific pattern differentiation and it is taken to mean that other people are crossing locales.... I dont take this stuff personal, never have, thats why I like intelligent arguments. Its when other people stoke the fire against me for no apparent reason that in uncalled for. Thats why we have TOS. If I play along then fine, but my fan club doesnt always see it the way you do so sometimes I prefer not to. And I post here to help people learn, I really do. I am of the opinion that there are too many "pretty picture" types and not enough "meat and potatoes" types to have intelligent conversations without them ending up here. If we could educate the "pretty picture" people then we could have more interesting conversations and figure out what makes these snakes tick better. Progress, not perfection is what I ask. The same people bringing up the same arguments without updates/proof is at best redundant and at worst simply argumentative. Yes, I do but I include updates(see Carls pic)or proof(MCZ spec.).

since my name is the only "new" one in all that mess.

First of all... for those of you taking the time to speak a few words in defense of the newbie... it's appreciated but unnecessary, if it were worth the bother I'm quite capable of doing it myself... but where do you start with someone that would actually use the words "my fan club" in reference to himself?

Jeff, you don't start anything? How does your comment of "I mean I dont talk about how goofy looking you are in random threads do I? LOL" pertain to anything? Nobody up to that point had referenced another persons looks in any way. Such a pathetically transparent way of starting something just to later on down the line say " who, me? I didn't mean anything by it ... and for future reference... anyone that looks like Chunk from the movie "The Goonies" all grown should pause a moment or two before talking about looks.

You talk of teaching/helping/instructing and wishing to engage in both rational and intelligent debate... so again let's look at your own words from an earlier post of yours this year... "FACT-the northeast part of the country has the most people per square mile than anywhere else. That means it also has the most milkheads"... by that reasoning I could insert any subgroup of people into that statement I wished and have it be as equally valid... I'm thinking Eskimos btw... I won't even get into your proof of terrestrial slugs in the northeast being poisonous by referencing an aquatic slug off the Australian coast... could cite a few others but I'll let it be with just... very educational and helpful indeed.

You... of all people... bringing up TOS violations? I won't even go there.

I have learned one thing from you Jeff and that is I need to learn the proper way to express sarcasm in my posts, it's quite apparent you've missed it in all the previous ones.

Enough bother and wasted time, supper is waiting... again thanks gentlemen/ladies... Jeff won't and couldn't scare me away, if there's an insulting/demeaning comment that can be made about me I've already made it, so someone else doing it will be of no matter... besides, just when you think you've heard the funniest thing ever he opens his mouth again... wouldn't miss it... but it will be the last time I bother with any of his pointless BS

Yeah, dont take anything he says seriously...nobody here does!

I can only conclude from his lack of pertinent information and subpar pictures, that he is an amateur herper, and his only "Friends" are here on KS.

He is fun to get riled up, though, and its SO easy!!
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Scott MacLeod
2.6 Snow Hondurans
1.1 Aberrant Snow Hondurans
2.4 Aberrant Hondurans
1.3 Aberrant Tangerine Hondurans
1.2 Aberrant Hypo Hondurans
0.1 Aberrant Hybino Honduran
1.3 Extreme Hypo VP
1.1 Tricolor Hypo VP
0.1 Hypo E Sinaloan
1.0 Het Hypo E & Amel Sinaloan
0.1 Amel het Hypo E and Splotched
1.1 Albino Striped Sinaloan
2.7 Striped Splotched Sinaloan
1.2 Poss Het T pos Sinaloan
1.2 T pos Sinaloan

At the risk of setting myself up for the unrelenting wit and sarcasm Jeff has displayed with the corn snake/ milk snake brouhaha (in the spirit of AmazonDoc Jeff please note it is brouhaha not bru haha)that he just can't seem to let go... I see nothing in these "better" pictures that precludes it from being a Prairie King... the details of the unusual location it was found in does give me pause however... I would certainly like to be able to rely on Jeff's outstanding identification skills but to date the best id he's made imo is the most recent one of "a GIRL"... and quite frankly based on the photos I find that questionable as well...

So to those of you that have decided it is indeed an unusual milk... please enlighten me.

At the risk of setting myself up for the unrelenting wit and sarcasm Jeff has displayed with the corn snake/ milk snake brouhaha (in the spirit of AmazonDoc Jeff please note it is brouhaha not bru haha)that he just can't seem to let go... I see nothing in these "better" pictures that precludes it from being a Prairie King... the details of the unusual location it was found in does give me pause however... I would certainly like to be able to rely on Jeff's outstanding identification skills but to date the best id he's made imo is the most recent one of "a GIRL"... and quite frankly based on the photos I find that questionable as well...

So to those of you that have decided it is indeed an unusual milk... please enlighten me.

Gerry, as always, the very first question that should be asked is WHERE was it found? Once I realized it was from Mass, far outside any other Lamp..sp/ssp is found other than Eastern milks the next question was again simple, does the scalation match the known holotype and the answer quickly is YES. Now if you were to suggest it were anything else you would have to go by pattern not scalation, which would nullify it as scalation is a far better tool to use than "pattern in a field guide" I think we can all agree. Again I caution the knee JERK reactions of the forum because this is a newby poster with a very neat new critter. Follow my lead and dont act like a bunch of lunk heads again and posts like DOCs will be a thing of the past. And as far as ID skills, besides being a professional witness in court cases for the state I do have just a smidgen of field experience, both with snakes and girls! Real ones, not the blow up type you like!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes it's location was the first thing that came to mind, but seeing as an escaped/released Gaboon Viper was found here is Maine earlier this year not 30 miles from where I live... well... I'm sure even you can see why I would not dismiss out of hand the possibility of a Prairie King in Mass.

Had I known you not only had access to the snake in question but the L.t.t. holotype in hand as well to do a comparative analysis I would not have questioned you. I am impressed Jeff, I couldn't even tell you where the holotype is stored let alone lay hands on it so quickly.

Gerry

LOL...agreed, Jeff's ID skills seem to be unverified with both snakes and girls.
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Scott MacLeod
2.6 Snow Hondurans
1.1 Aberrant Snow Hondurans
2.4 Aberrant Hondurans
1.3 Aberrant Tangerine Hondurans
1.2 Aberrant Hypo Hondurans
0.1 Aberrant Hybino Honduran
1.3 Extreme Hypo VP
1.1 Tricolor Hypo VP
0.1 Hypo E Sinaloan
1.0 Het Hypo E & Amel Sinaloan
0.1 Amel het Hypo E and Splotched
1.1 Albino Striped Sinaloan
2.7 Striped Splotched Sinaloan
1.2 Poss Het T pos Sinaloan
1.2 T pos Sinaloan

The funny thing is that Mr Hondo chimed in on this thread. His idea of keying a species rubbing a key on his rusty Pinto, LOL. You have "Honduran" milks? Please key them out and enlighten us!

As usual, Mr. Hybrid, you make almost no sense and obliterate the English language in the process. Proof to the youngsters on here, a GED is just not good enough, STAY IN SCHOOL or become like Jeffy!
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Scott MacLeod
2.6 Snow Hondurans
1.1 Aberrant Snow Hondurans
2.4 Aberrant Hondurans
1.3 Aberrant Tangerine Hondurans
1.2 Aberrant Hypo Hondurans
0.1 Aberrant Hybino Honduran
1.3 Extreme Hypo VP
1.1 Tricolor Hypo VP
0.1 Hypo E Sinaloan
1.0 Het Hypo E & Amel Sinaloan
0.1 Amel het Hypo E and Splotched
1.1 Albino Striped Sinaloan
2.7 Striped Splotched Sinaloan
1.2 Poss Het T pos Sinaloan
1.2 T pos Sinaloan

OK...so it still looks like calligaster to me...

I still cannot see the top of the head or the belly at all really...pics still suck and snake is still butt ugly...

just my thought....don't scream

it has got to be the ugliest eastern milk I ever saw if it is an Ltt....truly....and I have seen alot of butt ugly easterns here in PA.....from brown to grey to what the heck color is that...

this one is odd....maybe coffee colored axanthic?....really...

...so....head and belly....still not plain view...

my 3 cents./.....

.
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........JY

oooh and I mean it looks calligaster....YES I KNOW IT IS NOT one....just that odd color to it.....maybe...probably.....

....actually I still don't know what it is.....
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........JY

I will take pics again when he sheds.