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Why do you suppose the vast majority of patternless "Goini" are male? Whatever happened to Keith Hillson? Do male Eastern "chain" Kings typically get larger than females and has anyone noticed if their males are usually brighter and cleaner than their females (the chains)? Thanks

>>Why do you suppose the vast majority of patternless "Goini" are male? Whatever happened to Keith Hillson? Do male Eastern "chain" Kings typically get larger than females and has anyone noticed if their males are usually brighter and cleaner than their females (the chains)? Thanks

I don't have enough experience with the Chains to answer but I do know Keith is still around. In fact he frequents some of the other smaller Reptile forums. Like (bleep)s, and Reptileforum dot o r g. To name a couple.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Well, To be quite honest, I don't think any human has an accurate answer for why most patternless goini are found to be males. Similar to why are most of the lighter, yellower brooksi found along the oolitic rock-lined canal banks males?. Same with "ghost" corns, most all the lighter ghosts are invariably males as well.

There are many other types of snakes that have VERY distinct sexual dimorphisms, but as to the real cause, or reason will probably never be known or full understood at all.

Yes, male getula are generally a good bit larger than females are, this probably has to do with the "courtship battle" they do with other males, and also to help them overpower and hold the females down to breed with them. If they were substantially smaller, they probably wouldn't fair too well when eagerly approaching numerous female's in the wild.

As Jorge mentioned, yes, Keith is around. I corresponded with him a few times last month on other forums.

As far as I know, the "cleanliness" of the patterns and coloration, they can be quite variable with individuals, but VERY generally speaking, the duller ones would probably be a slightly higher percentage of females, but of course there are MANY MANY exceptions to this, and there are countless vivid, gorgeous females out there as well, both in the wild and that have been captive-bred. This aspect of course really depends on so many things it is almost not even worth mentioning though in my opinion.

regards, ~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Here's an easy answer....It is called Dimorphism......

As for Keith....who really cares.....LOL
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

color intentsity might be affected by hormones???.....testosterone lightens it up????....

Does the testosterone actually lighten the snakes up???, or do the light snakes merely HAVE testosterone???..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Does the testosterone itself actually lighten the snakes coloration??, or do the lighter snakes simply HAVE testosterone??..LOL!

Or does estrogen actually darken the females?

I am just purely talking out of my A$$ right now too, because I don't know ANYTHING about any of this..LMAO!!

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

hmmm, for like ten minutes, my first post never showed up here after I thought I hit the "post message" tab, so I just figured that when I got doing something else on my computer, I inadvertently hit the wrong button, so I started another one to post. So now I see it finally showed up, and I double posted..LOL!

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

You guys are crazy. Not to be sappy, but when I feel like talking snakes it's nice to read some occasionally humorous stuff as opposed to the blank stares my wife and daughter give me. i definitely owe ya'll a beer or a coke if the situation ever presents itself!

Yeah, a little fun never hurt anyone

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

hahaha......you need some breath mints!!!!!....hahaha...

.

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

You guys crack me up!
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Kent

0.1 Hypomelanistic striped cornsnake
1.1 Hypo (het lavender, striped) cornsnake hatchlings
2.2 Normal (het hypo, lavender, striped) cornsnake hatchlings
1.2 Gray-banded kingsnakes, blairs phase
1.1 Oregon rubber boas

Doug, Methyl Testosterone has been used to intensify male coloration in tropical fish for years by unscrupulous people and from countries of import ,It will also turn a drab female into a glowing peacock for a limited time, and also turn ON immature juvis to mature male coloration,so to answer your Q? Yes Testo. Is a major factor as far as estrogene ?Dunno?

Wow Chris,..that is pretty darn interesting!

I can easily see how this could be, and you know far more than I do about tropical fish, but has testosterone been scientifically proven to be the main cause for the color brightening/lightening in snakes?.

It seems to me that there are countless millions of "butt-ugly" male snakes out there that also have testosterone?

I wonder if they would even be far uglier if they didn't..LMAO!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

This sorta follows what we see in Mexicana & Ruthveni...
The males seem to be the more brilliant/clean patterned/colored animals while the females are not as sharp......Not ALL but many. There are lots of exceptions to this "rule."
I always thought it was for camo purposes...
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

You brought up points that are exactly what my thoughts were too. As in birds and such, to be less visible to predators, etc.. Maybe not to nearly that extent, but still quite possible nonetheless to some degree.

Boomslangs are INSANELY different in their sexual dimorphism, females are brown, whereas males are light green with black highlights.

Man, nature is just incredible,...simple as that!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

HAHAHA......it can't change genetics......kinda like a lot of us......lots of testosterone......but i for one .....am one fugly dude!!!!!!!.......no metrosexuals here!!!!!!

HAHAHAAA!!,...I hear ya man!

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

i was RIGHT???......wait til i tell my wife!!!!!!

Hi,

While I cannot speak about goini, having never kept them, I can relay my experiences with easterns. Generally, my male easterns are much larger and bulkier than the females. This goes for all of the localities that I have kept, including GAs, NJs, NCs and OBs. In regard to color, I haven't seen a corollation as far as males being brighter or more intensely colored. If anything, my female GAs have tended to be much brighter and have retained much more orange than my males. My female NJs also tend to be brighter white than my males, but this varies depending upon the season. Right now, post breeding and gaining weight, my NJs always seem to be at their best, snow white on jet black. In the spring and summer, the mature girls get kind of muddy looking and bland. It funny that you inquired about Keith, as he was the first one (in our circle) to notice this seasonal color shift. I still talk with him from time to time and he is doing well. He and others got bounced from ks many years ago for some ongoing diputes they had with other forum members (who were not punished as severely). It is quite a shame, as he brought a lot of great info and interesting commentary to this board. Quite frankly, even though it is more civil now, the quality of the exchanges has taken a nose dive since the time that Keith, Pete Jolles, Bob Bull and others participated. Just my opinion.

Will

goini yep fun stuff...
for the most part all of my male getula are larger than my females.
hillson? wow , hahaha, wow ,dont know???, i believe he got himself banned from here.
,,,,,,thomas davis

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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com