Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I read a post here which said there are at least 6 known anery brb lines. Are they actually different lines in that they are genetically incompatible or is it just that 6 different breeders have them, and each lays claim to their own line? In reality, maybe there are actually only 2-3 genetically different lines? I've not seen anything definitive on this subject one way or another. I'd love to see pics or further explanation as to what defines and differentiates the different lines.
The best way to prove a given line would be to produce dh ghosts and then ghosts which is obviously a very lengthy process. Even lengthier would be to then cross ghosts from "different" lines to see compatibility. If they're incompatible, they're proven different lines. If they are compatible, then what? Are they not possibly the same line?

Can you link to that post?

I know of two Anery lines directly, Sharp and Seib. Sharp is proven with all the single recessive pairings complete with appropriate results. Visual x normal, Visual x Het, het x het and visual x visual. The Seib line has come under a lot of scrutiny lately as the DH Ghosts Robert Seib and Mike Lockwood produced several years back failed to produce ghosts and Aneries this year in anywhere near expected quantities. Not known at this time if it's a problem with the Anery gene or incompatibility between Hypo and Anery.

I respectfully disagree on the best way to prove an Anery line by producing Ghosts. Much easier to work with and prove out by sticking with the single gene first.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Thanks for narrowing it down to at least 2 strains with one posing questions. You're not disagreeing with my statement at all. I think you misunderstood my train of thought is all. What I meant was, to prove a given anery line, create dh ghosts and then subsequently try producing ghosts from the double hets. Surely, if ghosts are produced, the anery gene has been proven. Now, do the same procedure with a supposed DIFFERENT anery line. Suppose ghosts were produced from THAT line also. Cross the ghosts produced from both lines to see what happens. If nothing happens, due to incompatibility, isn't it safe to say they are two DISTINCT lines? I realize brb ghosts are a relatively new phenomena and I think they're awesome looking! If there are indeed at most only 2 different strains, I'd actually be relieved. It would be pretty chaotic if there actually were the six I'd seen mentioned.

I do see what your getting at, but i cant see anyone doing that for years. The same as what i wrote in my other message, nobody is going to waste a DH ghost female, if there not 100% sure of what the result is. 2 options, there compatible and you produce a ghost, OR, you produce a bunch of hypos or 66%poss het hypos, all poss 50% one strain of anery, poss 50% of the other strain...
The best way, is to just combine visuals to visuals of certain lines. It will happen, but not for a while.

cheers
-----
Dave

15.24 brbs
4.8 crbs
Im an aussie in an arctic environment
Helsinki, Finland

What strain is outback's BRB's, if anyone knows? I have a male sib from that clutch, just missed getting the female. Why Seib's arerys for sale on here dont look anery? Lots of color in the cresents not white, and nice orange color. I have a male that is all brown, not sure if he is anery until i breed him back to his babies in a few years. Proving the mother out as hypo this year from a male hypo from Dave. The anery trait is confusing in brb's the adults dont look as anery as in Boa's.

Don't know what strain Outback has.

I personally am not convinced the Seib line Anery is a true recessive morph. I have seen no specific results from breeding trials that proves that Anery line. Only data I have seen is the recent results on the joint Ghost project with Mike. 6 litters, 80 babies, 20 hypo, 2 ghost and one anery???

My Sharp line Aneries have white crescents, yes the overall animal browns out with age but you can still see the white crescents.

While I don't have specific data on the Sharp line either, I have chatted with Brian and he indicated he had done Visual x het, Visual x normal and Het x Het and produced results within expected norms. I did the visual x visual pairing myself this year and a litter of all Aneries was produced.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

That sounds like the sharp is proven, i just dont want to waste four years to find out i have an incompatable strain. At least i have 10 babies to breed back to me male. Are the hypo strains all the same, all compatable? I need a female anery to breed to my male, starting with a vis at least i would have 100% het if not compatable.

IMO Sharp is fully proven and good to go.

Most Hypo strains tie back to Mike Lockwood including all from East Bay Vivarium. There is also a "Darrin Bell" line that does not appear compatible but very few specimens around.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Have there been any ghosts produced yet from the Sharp strain?

I would say no since no one has ever said anything about producing any. I do know there are at least two litters of Lockwood/Sharp DH's. One in 2009 and mine in 2010. May be additional litter(s) this year I've not been made aware of.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

As far as im aware, there is at least 3 anery lines in the US. The Sharp, the Seib and one from the guy TC (no its not Tommy Crutchfield, but someone that uses TC as there name on KS, but i cant for the life of me remember there actual name)
As to what Dave said, i agree about the breeding trials, and would guess that only the Sharp line has been completely proven out with the 4 standard breeding trials.
All the aneries seem to look crap as adults, and IMO, the animals seib have look the nicest as babies.
I know that i have 2 lines of aneries that have originated in europe, but neither of them i can say have been truly proven out. One originated in czech republic and one from the UK. For one of my lines, i should be able to do, a visualxnormal, visualxvisual and visualxhet breeding this year. And to get some answers. The other line is still probably 2yrs off.
Given what i have heard from the breeders or other info, i would say that its 110% chance that they are not related to each other, or any of the US lines.
That said, it may take a while to work out if any are compatible, and that all comes down to money. If someone was to have a Sharp anery female, they are not going to waste her on a unproven anery looking male, if they can try and hit on pure Sharp anerys, or DH ghosts.
I do have plans to cross a few of my lines, but not until i have enough spare visual females to do this, and seeing that these arent ball pythons, its going to take a while!!!
As for other lines, both Ben Siegel and Outback Reptiles have had Anery looking animals for sale recently, and i know i was offered an entire litter of US bred anery looking animals a while back, that wernt from any of the 3 main US lines.

IMO anerys look awful, buts its not the look that intrigues me about them (unless of course they kept their birth colour!!!!), but its what they can do in the future. Ghosts, snows, moonglows, anery patternless, calico anery, a pearl anery etc etc etc. Each new colour or morph that is
-----
Dave

15.24 brbs
4.8 crbs
Im an aussie in an arctic environment
Helsinki, Finland

introduced into the rainbow colour scheme, will only enchance what is possible with this species.
While i dont think any animals will beat the line breeding efforts of say Daves BamBam in pure natural beauty, i think the majority of us, would also like to see, what is actual possible colour wise. We will always get the rainbow shine, given how the scales are made up, so imagine that on a pure white brb. mmmmmmmm.

There are plenty of morphs out there already, some we know about, some hidden in our collections, and some waiting to be found. It might take many years, but the sky is the limit.....

sorry for the ramble
-----
Dave

15.24 brbs
4.8 crbs
Im an aussie in an arctic environment
Helsinki, Finland

Dave, the TC you are referring to is Tom Chiang.
-----
Aubrey Ross

©
www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

Hi Dave. I'd love to see pics of your European anery strains. I'm trying to get an idea if there are obvious visual differences in hues, contrast, or whatever. I agree the adult animals I've seen aren't impressive looking but as you stated, it's what the anery gene is capable of doing when combined with other morph genes that makes them interesting!
Not sure what this guy is but the same pairing that produced him the first time around, produced four more this year. This guy now looks so different than his siblings it's amazing.

That is an interesting looking guy. Looks very similar to a baby I have that was also the only one in the litter that looked that way. I didn't produce her though, so not sure if the breeder has had any others pop out in the past.

Have any current pics of that one and of your 4 new ones?
-----
Aubrey Ross

©
www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

The recent litter are all in their second shed so I'll have to wait to get decent pics. Just snapped a few of three siblings from the first litter. First is a normal looking female. Second is another sibling with steel blue sides. Finally, the little guy pictured earlier now almost 1.5 years later. Hard to believe these three animals are siblings because they vary so much!