Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Have any of you seen this before? I don't know what it is and have never seen it before.

The alterna last ate November 9th, and seemed fine then. But has developed this concave depression from its head back about 5 inches down its neck and body. There has always been water in w/ him and don't believe it to be a desiccation issue.
He doesn't seem to be bothered by it, as he keeps moving around normally, and not sitting on the heat tape only, and doesn't seem lethargic either. I also can't hear any weird whizzing or breathing.
For what its worth, I forced its mouth open and it looked a bit tacky w/ saliva.

I'll also post this on the alterna forum too.

Here is the healthy adult.

And here is the sunken ventral.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions and help.

-Dell

Dell, I have seen it before but have no idea what the heck causes it or anything.If I remember correctly I had a pueblan milk many years back that did that and lived about three more years and reproduced and everything.
Weird to say the least.

Good luck and let us know what other may have to say.
Shannon

Well sh!t, Shannon if you and Doug haven't seen it, or don't know what to do about it then this alterna could be in trouble.
Joecop emailed me and asked if it could be substrate that has scratched or punctured the area of the throat. And I do use wood chip substrate, and when he said that, I remembered four or five days ago he had some small wood chips hanging out of his mouth that I pulled from his mouth. I'm not sure if that has anything to do w/ his condition now, but it does have me wondering.

I have a good vet here that I like Doug, I may consider your suggestion by the end of the week. Like I said he seems to be doing just fine now, despite the strange depression.

Thanks guys, I'll try and keep you up dated on his condition as it progresses.

-Dell

Wow!,...that is really bizarre Dell. I can't recall ever seeing that before either.

I hope you can get to the bottom of whatever it is, or at least that the animal continues to survive without any suffering.

I must agree with you though, that ain't normal!

later bud, ~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Now this is just a guess, but you might want to seriously think about taking the snake to a vet for a throat smear. Even if they aren't all that great with reptiles, they would still be able to detect any possible worm activity that might be feeding on the throat tissue, such as tongue worms, etc..

Like I said, just a hunch, but I think it is very possible that something might be feeding on the tissue there. It actually looks like it is disappearing,..know what I mean?

good luck buddy!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I recently lost a buckskin that the exact hollow look. It was very active but at times it seemed to be gasping for breath. Three trips to a well respected herp vet and six weeks on antibiotics had no effect. So we put her down on the last visit. Wishing you good luck and better results than I had.
theOLDherper
Pete

Peter,
This alterna doesn't seem to be struggling for breath, or wheezing, and like you said is still very active. I thought I'd try and feed him a small meal tomorrow and see how that is received.
Thanks for your concern, and your post.

-Dell

Dell, when I have seen anything like that it had to do with a regurge issue. Something could be affecting its "gag reflex", my guess would be something lodged in some part of the throat or stomach. If it has wieght I would try a "stomach pump" procedure and flush the contents in hope of catching the obstruction. Of course it could be improper stomach PH and that is the throats reaction to it too. Knock 1 thing down then attempt something else, not sure if a vet is going to be able to help much in this case. Good luck!

Jeff, a vet could easily look down the throat with an arthroscope instrument and could possibly get a VERY good idea of what might be going on.

This could be done in no time flat

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Jeff wrote:
Dell, when I have seen anything like that it had to do with a regurge issue.

I'd agree w/ you Jeff, but from my notes I keep, he hasn't regurgitated anything ever.

my guess would be something lodged in some part of the throat or stomach.

That is one worry I've had suggested, and it's my concern at this point. On an up note I did feed him two fuzzy's today, which he took down no problem.

Of course it could be improper stomach PH and that is the throats reaction to it too.

You could be right here too I'm thinking. I'm going to watch what happens w/ the fuzzy's over the next few days, and proceed from there.

Thanks for your suggestions.

-Dell

I might take a small piece of of TUMS(sodium bicarb)to try and alleviate the stomach acid. Snakes produce a very strong acid and if there is a stomach problem it can burn the stomach lining. Bicarb may be just the ticket, it is pretty inocuous too. J

Since the snake has eaten and if you decide to go to a vet with it you may want to take along some fecal matter when it's available, check for worms/parasites, or have a quick look yourself if you have a microscope

Wasn’t going to suggest this but since you say the snake is eating and there seems to be no respiratory problems… from an anatomical standpoint there's little in that area besides the trachea and esophagus. Tracheas, as you probably know are made up of a series of "C" shaped rings with a thin membrane spanning the open section to close it off. Perhaps that membrane has been damaged during feeding or perhaps it's just weaker in that particular snake, so instead of forming a tube as it should the membrane has collapsed into that "C" area and in turn allowing the muscle tissue to cave in as well. Only a wild idea, never having dissected a snake I have no idea if the trachea occupies enough space to account for such a deep depression. But as Doug points out… if the vet has an arthroscope or something similar it would be easy enough to check.

Just the two cents of a newbie, hope in any case things turn out as well for yours as it did for Shannon's.

Gerry