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Interesting read

TessadasExotics Nov 23, 2010 08:49 PM

Taken from
Leukism(Leucis) article

Posted by Dr. Walden at 9:04 AM 0 comments
Monday, August 24, 2009
Leukism (Leucism)
Leukism (Leucism)
Pronunciation Problems to Ponder

Many questions have been asked of me as a herpetologist and veterinarian. One of these is the nature of leucism. First of all, it is NOT pronounced "loo-si-zm" saying that immediately identifies a person as poorly educated in scientific and medical terminology. In Classical Latin the C is always pronounced like K - the so called hard C sound. You do not call a neoplasm of blood cells "loo-see-mee-ah" it is pronounced "loo-kee-mee-ah." The rule is the same for the prefix leuc- or leuk- across the board. White blood cells are pronounced "loo- ko- site" not "loose- o- site" (which incidentally, is spelled leukocyte or leucocyte with the k form being more common, but both correct). It is "loo- ko-" in the words leucoencephalomalacia and all other words with the prefix. Arrogant as it sounds, in many medical circles the mispronunciation of basic words like that makes people think of you as poorly educated and without a firm grasp of scientific or medical language. In fact, one colleague of mine once heard another doctor say "loo-sis-tic" and said "did you hear that? Where did he get his doctorate? From an online college staffed by trailer trash?" Ok, I agree that is harsh, but similar (though more tactfully expressed sentiments ) are frequently found in the halls of academia. So mispronouncing words can make people dismiss you as a rube, so make an effort not to do it.

Where does this come from? Leuc- is the Latin form of the Greek Leukos. Thus, technically any work that is spelled with the leuc- prefix can be spelled with the Greek prefix instead and spelled leuk-. An example is the word leukocyte. The Greek is used, but it is acceptable (though more rare) to spell it with the Latin to form leucocyte. In the case of leucism the opposite has become true. The Latin form has become more widespread, but the Greek is equally valid. Thus, leukism is correct. In fact, I have increasingly begun to spell it with the Greek spelling because of the pronunciation issue.

Unfortunately, most people that pronounce it "loo-si-zm" are hobbyists that are poorly trained in medical terminology, if they are trained at all. Most know nothing about science beyond their high school biology and chemistry classes. It is very difficult to correct people that have formed an entire community which is equally badly educated. You fall into a form of peer pressure to be wrong. If you pronounce a word correctly when everybody else is pronouncing it wrong you are looked at as a jerk or a wierdo. Veterinarians and some herpetologists then adopt the incorrect pronunciation so they will not offend their clients. This is what scientists and medical professionals have to combat. Peer ignorance pressure is difficult to overcome. I can remember speaking to a group of hobbyists not long ago and someone asked me a question about leukism. I corrected their pronounciation very politely, but you should have seen the looks from the whole room. I said, "I'm sorry, do you mean leukism?" The person looked a little puzzled. I continued by saying "the condition is called leukism, it comes from the Greek leukos meaning white." The whole room smiled and looked rather odd. I asked several people afterward why they looked odd. They laughed and said "everybody says 'leusism'." When I pointed out that was not correct, they replied "maybe, but if you say it like you say it, people will think you are wierd."

For that reason (as I mentioned before) I still tend to write using the more common spelling with a C, but I have increasingly begun to spell it with a k when dealing with hobbyists.

Concepts to Consider
There is a great deal of bad information out there (hence the new term "wikipedian information". If you have not run across that term, you will eventually. One of the greatest sources of misinformation is wikipedia. I have read the article on leucism there and there is a great deal of misunderstanding. One of the things that is not understood is the fact that the words leucism (or leukism) and albinism are essentially the same in their roots. They both mean white. The medical field is what delineated a difference between them. Those not in the medical field rarely use the distinction correctly. Just because something looks white does not mean it is either leukistic or albino. There are other genetic mutations out there that cause feathers or hair to be white which have to do with deposition of melanin or other pigments (carotenoids in many avian species for example) that have nothing to do with leukism or albinism. Many PhD's (and I am one as well as a DVM) have a very poor concept of what constitutes these conditions. So I will break them down in the most basic forms.

The first thing we must remember is the definitions are artificial. The term albino and leucistic actually literally mean the same thing - white. The artificial division between them began in the veterinary and herpetological communities, and rather recently too. In fact the word leucism has not made it (as of this writing) into most dictionaries. Among those that study chromatophore biology and pigment mutations there are a set of definitions for these words that are accepted as the standard.

1) ALBINISM- genetic mutations that alter the pigment cells of the skin and other tissues in such a way that the pigments themselves are not formed in their final, normal biological form. NOTE I said skin and other tissues. If the skin and rest of the body is not devoid of pigment, but the hair or feathers are white, that does not equate to albino. Also albinism is a derangement of pigment formation, not deposition. There are numerous forms of albinism. In humans, there are two pigments. Eumelanin is brown to black and pheomelanin is rusty or even orange or red. They travel along a similar cascade when being formed but differ in the amount of sulfur in the final melanin compound. Any disruption along the cascade can cause a form of albinism. Some albinos have red hair because they have a gene that is faulty for the formation of eumelanin, so they are really only eumelanistic albinos. Other pigments found in reptiles can also have faulty genes. The pteridines and drosopterins in the other cells (xanthophors and a subset of xanthophores called erythrophores) can cause other forms of albinism. Currently the iridophores (which use crystals and refraction to cause color instead of pigment) are not really known to be faulty in the same way since there are not pigments, so iridophoric albinism is something that simply does not occur.

2)LEUKISM (LEUCISM)- medically defined this is a defect in the skin, not the pigment cells. There are other derangements of pigment that can cause a whitening effect, but they are not classical leukism. Classical leukism is caused by a faulty gene, or set of genes, that causes the skin to be unable to support pigment cells. Experiments have been done that illustrate this. In one set of experiments normal pigment cells from a normal animal were placed in albino skin and the cells were normal and produced pigment. This demonstrated that the albino defect was in the pigment cells of the albino but not in the skin itself. The same experiment done in leukistic skin caused the normal pigment cells to die. Some have claimed that the reason eyes are pigmented in leukistic animals is because the pigment in the eye comes from another origin (the non-neural crest theory). This is really not the case. In fact some (unfortunately as yet unpublished research that really needs to get published) experiments were done transplanting RPE eye pigment cells into the skin and they died. Conclusion? Well nothing. The eye pigment cells can't survive out of the eye is all that proved. So melanophores from the iris were transplanted and they died in leukistic skin but survived in albino skin. Conclusion? The defect has to do with the skin, not the origin of the pigment cells. Further evidence of this can be found in numerous species that have melanin or other pigments present in other tissues such as the peritoneum but are typical of leukistic animals on the outside when alive.
However, some leukistic animals are also leukistic internally. What does this mean? At present it is unknown. It might reflect a subtype of leukism where there is agenesis, dysgenesis or complete necrosis embryologically of the chromatophores. This could represent another branch on the leukism scheme and might indicate a disorder we might call Complete Leukism. Where forms just limited to the skin might be termed Cutaneous Leukism. One thing is clear, the definition of leukism is only semi set. There is room for other forms, but it should be understood that there must be a standard definition defined in pathological terms.

So are there other forms of leukism? Possibly, but one must not confuse leukism with dysregulation of dysfunction of chromatophores. For example, if the chormatophore cannot produce pigments, but is otherwise functional, that is albinism. However, what about a mutation in a receptor that causes the pigment cell to be unable to receive signals (a MSH receptor for example) to produce pigment? That situation is more closely related to albinism since the pigment cells are present but not functioning, though they are dysfunctional from a different cause. Thus it is probably better call the condition something else in order to eliminate confusion. I personally refer to these potential disorders as receptor mediated chromatophoropathies (or chromatopathy) or RMC's. I first coined that term back in 2003, but have had no real case where this could be proven. Since many of the immunohistochemical markers for mammal receptors do not work in reptiles and leucistic or RMC mammals are much harder to come by, I have not been able to publish the term in the mainstream literature. But published or not, it is useful for this discussion. We can separate some of the confusion like this:

1. Classic leukism is due to chromatophore necrosis, apoptosis, dysgenesis or agenesis - and is the the absence of recognizable chromatophore cells on histopathology.
2. Receptor Mediated Chromatophoropathy (RMC) is a white state due to chromatophores not receiving signals or are receiving only low level signals to produce pigment due to a mutation in some receptor, signaling pathway or a defect in the production of melanophore stimulating hormone (MSH), but chromatophores are present in the skin on histopathology.
3. Albinism is a defect of pigment production within the chromatophores without loss of chromatophores. Chromatophores are present in the skin, but are not able to produce pigment or fully formed pigment.

3)Any white animals with pigmented eyes are leukistic? NO. Particularly in those animals where their color or percieved color comes from keratin structures like hair or feathers. There are other mutations out there where the pigment cells are working but the (in the case of mammals for example) melanocytes are prevented from injecting their melanosomes into hair shafts. This causes white coats, but pigmented skin. Some white haired horses are an example of this. They may have black skin, but white hair. They are not leukistic. Other animals have this kind of situation too and it can arise as a mutation in a population. Birds may also have a condition like this where they are really normal as far a pigment production, but not in terms of deposition in the feathers.

4)Animals with patterns are leukistic, right? NO. Leukistic animals should be all white. There was a picture of a giraffe circulating about the internet a few years ago that was black and white. No brown. People started calling it leukistic. NO. It had black, so it was not leucistic. It may have had a pheomelanin defect or other mutation, but it was definitely not leukistic. On the wikipedia website under leucism there is (as of this writing) even a picture of several avians with black feathers but white feathers also. That is NOT leukism. Pattern mutations are something separate as is piebaldism. Piebaldism was believed to be a related condition to leukism, but it is often a progressive condition over time in animals, though may be static. Animals that are born with a pattern that is maintained over the course of their life may not be piebald, that is often something else, like mosaicism or a pattern mutation it depends on the nature of the color pattern. Too often I have had someone show me an animal with a clear case of pattern mutation where the normally white bands (kingsnakes are a good example) are wider than usual and less neat, and they call it piebald. It is not so.
Typical progressive piebald animals start out normal then loose patches of pigment over time until they reach or get near maturity when it often stops progressing, though some can progress to complete loss of pigment. However, some species have static piebaldism too, but whatever the type, piebaldism is random, not patterned. Thus animals with white patches that form a symmetrical pattern are not piebald, but are suffering from a pattern mutation. One must also be careful not to throw the word around carelessly. A spotted horse is not piebald just because it is spotted. Horses are not piebald just because they have white. If the skin under the white spots is also devoid of pigment, then that may be considered piebald. But caution must be used with piebald too.
What exactly consititues a piebald? Piebald is where normal pigmented skin and structures (hair, feathers) are randomly distributed around the body with non-pigmented skin and structures. If the skin under the coat is normal, it is not piebald. Some argue that there is also another condition to piebald and that it must be an abnormal condition.
Under this definition of abnormal, paint horses are not piebald since their color is normal for the breed. Calico cats are not piebald, though they have a random arrangement of color. I personally do not accept this definition. I do, however, accept the prerequisite that the distribution of piebaldness is random.
A bi-colored crow or grackle that is symmetrical and has a distinct pattern is not piebald or leukistic, but has a pattern mutation. White pigeons with black speckles are not piebald or leukistic, they have a speckled pattern mutation. The list goes on. If you want to see misidentified pictures just look at any number of websites - they will often have a spotted pigeon and call it leukistic or piebald.
I must also bring a point of standardization here. A sparrow with a white patch around its head is more in keeping with piebaldness than leukism. Leukism is complete lack of pigment over the body. Not patches. Not blotches. Not stripes. Random patches of depigmentation are due to a pathologic disease resulting in depigmentation or due to something like piebaldism. The purity of the term leukism must be preserved for the sake of standardization. The way the current use is (especially in birding circles) if you say something is leukistic, you do not know if it is piebald, hypomelanistic, has autoimmune depigmentation, been burnt and has a depigmented white area, has a birth mark causing the hair or feathers to be white, or is completely white with pigmented eyes. UNACCEPTABLE, ASININE AND INTOLERABLE. Especially the scientific community should know better that allow this kind of confusion.

5) For lack of a better term... PSEUDOLEUKISM - I choose to coin the term pseudoleukism to identify the condition of false leukism seen in those animals (birds particularly) where pigment is dietary. Picture a flamingo which is stark white and has pigmented eyes. It is leukistic! Wrong! In point of fact this condition is common in avians. Many avian species do not deposit the classical pigments in their feathers. Many dispose of excess pigment from their diet by excreting it into the feathers as they are forming. Carotenoids are a common one. You would be surprised how many people have told me they have seen leukistic flamingos at the zoo. If flamingos, cocks of the rock or other species are not provided carotenoids in their diet, they go white. They are not leukistic or albino.

I added the following because of some questions generated by some of you. You e-mailed me some places to visit that were birding sites where they claim that washed out birds with low levels of pigment are leukistic. I hope this explanation helps.

6)HYPOMELANISM - another source of confusion out there is the really bad tendency of the literature particularly the non-peer reviewed literature of mammal and bird color morphs to call those with lower than normal levels of pigment (not absence) leukistic. The problem with that is that there is a wholly different pathogenesis going on there. I have had the opportunity to examine some of these birds at necropsy and I examined their skin and feathers. The ones I have examined were very similar to hypomelanistic reptiles. The melanophores are present but have a reduced level of melanin production. The exact pathogenesis of hypomelanism is not worked out but it is known that in some species it is a Mendelian recessive gene. It is not classical leukism, nor should it be referred to as leukism (leucism).

So there is a brief run down on leukism (leucism). Be careful what you read out there. Some explanation on leukism can be found in the book "Reptile and Amphibian Variants" by H. Bernard Bechtel. He talks about the skin micro-environment defect briefly and the transplant experiments. Keep your questions coming and I will try to answer. I hope my students have found my new blog. I will be e-mailing you all again to update you since it is now up. I will try to post my old posts eventually, but necropsy has been heavy lately and I am swamped with cases.
Posted by Dr. Walden at 9:38 PM 0 comments
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Replies (28)

RussLawson Nov 23, 2010 11:18 PM

I was aware of the rampant mispronunciation of the word leucistic in the reptile community, but this article showed some good insight into the comparisons of several different pigment defects. Thanks for sharing it.
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Russell Lawson
www.russreptiles.com

jsschrei Nov 24, 2010 12:14 AM

Thank you for finding and posting this article!
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Cheers,
Jessica Gibbs
Ball Pythons; Corn Snakes; Green Tree Python; Jungle Carpet Python; Bci; Bcl; Bco
www.supercoilconstrictors.com
LEARNING PREVENTS IGNORANCE OF THAT WHICH SURROUNDS YOU...AS LONG AS THE SOURCE FROM WHICH YOU LEARN IS A VALID ONE.

ohernz Nov 24, 2010 05:01 AM

Excellent article! Thanks for posting!
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Neutiquam erro. Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.

dumje Nov 24, 2010 07:37 AM

I would agree...good read...but I would argue that languages change constantly...the English we speak today is not the english that came over 400 years ago....not the English that was spoken 1000 years ago...words change...words are invented...they way the words are pronounced is changed...spellings change...based on the way societys are moving...I would say in this case ingnorance has changed the way we say a word...it is Leucistic now...until something significant happens to change it
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Michael Enriquez

Randall_Turner Nov 24, 2010 09:29 AM

I wonder if the author of said article has read the dictionary, he needs to let Merriam Webster know they are stupid and got their degrees online from white trash like the rest of us unwashed idiots. I guess Leucite which is a mineral that is white/gray and from the same root word is wrong too. Oh and also Leucine, a WHITE crystal from the same root word.

TessadasExotics Nov 24, 2010 10:08 AM

I am sure the author has more knowledge of the wording and terms than most, if not all of us here. Not to mention it was not the author who made that statement and he did say it was a harsh one at that. Not quite sure why some of you are having a problem with facts. Lets face it.. a lot of the "facts" that most of us know are wrong to include the terminology and genetics that are used in our hobby.

Randall_Turner Nov 24, 2010 10:15 AM

The facts regarding this word though are that 1: it is not defined at this point and 2: The root word for leucistic (Leuk) is used both with the long and short c sound. So his entire article is based on inaccuracies. He himself in the article says people who use this terminology are uneducated while a simple little bit of digging he would have found his entire stance was based on a small window of information he decided to deem the end all be all while disregarding more information, that in and of itself is an uneducated stance so rather hypocritical.

TessadasExotics Nov 24, 2010 10:27 AM

So because you don't agree with his reasoning or knowledge, with your Doctorate or Masters degree in herpetology, you are going to belittle the article and the author because you don't agree with a word? Being uneducated does not mean stupid. He was not attacking you or any one else by making that statement. Sorry if you find offense to that.

Randall_Turner Nov 24, 2010 10:37 AM

It is most certainly a form of attack/judgement. He uses partial information to base his entire article in a way to lift himself above everyone else who uses it in a way he disagrees with. There are many people with Doctorates who are incompetent, a degree does not an intellectual make. I would have no problem with the article if he had used all information and then given a valid argument for his stance for a particular form of pronunciation, which is what this entire discussion is based upon.

TessadasExotics Nov 24, 2010 11:09 AM
Randall_Turner Nov 24, 2010 11:16 AM

The links pull up "The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search bar above."

Did they pull up something else when you went there? Neither are listed in Websters physical version I have as well.

Just want to clarify my argument against the article isn't against you in the slightest, it is completely against the article. Incase I was coming off in the wrong light I thought I'd better mention that.

TessadasExotics Nov 24, 2010 12:14 PM

lol no no brother, I know what you are saying. I did in no way take what you are saying as that.

dsreptiel Nov 27, 2010 09:23 PM

I think the author is very correct and as he said most published info on reptile genetics are phonetically incorrect and you can't compare mineral pronunciations to cell genetic pronunciations . it all depends on the manner and field you are using the terms in .so in a way Randy T is correct as well if you are referring to minerals . medical text on genetics can also at times be contradictory as to phonetics .

and let me add that those unwilling to accept correction and be willing to continually learn are ignorant . I learn new things every day.

Randall_Turner Nov 28, 2010 02:12 AM

So medically speaking the article is still incorrect.

dsreptiel Nov 28, 2010 05:19 PM

it is what it is.

JYohe Nov 24, 2010 05:58 PM

Dat....dat is a word?......

....really....?.....
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........JY

Pitoon Nov 25, 2010 03:26 AM

i'm funna go...

funna? going or fun?

who knows...i know...do yall?

forget the words and just BBQ....it will make you feel better.

Pitoon

>>Dat....dat is a word?......
>>
>>....really....?.....
>>-----
>>........JY
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Homepage
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2010 European Shows

AndrewPotts Nov 24, 2010 11:31 AM

Thanks so much for the well written and informative article. Hope to see more in the future. Andrew

JYohe Nov 24, 2010 05:50 PM

I got to end of maybe first paragraph...and I am educated....

we / I don't know any old "Latins" to ask them...no Romans or ancient Greeks either....

....and....say as you like....Loo-Kiss-tic.....kiss what?...

....one doctor called it naprozen,,,the next called it naproxin....who was correct?.....who cares....I call it Aleve....???

.........funny.....

ElaphePantherophis......
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........JY

John_Yezbak Nov 24, 2010 06:55 PM

Every hobby has it's own slang and terminology. As long as everyone knows what you are talking about who the heck cares if it's a 'scientifically' accurate pronunciation!
We all say it the same way except this know-it-all.

John

TessadasExotics Nov 24, 2010 10:09 PM

LOL the point is not the pronunciation of the word. I don't understand why some people are getting hung up on that? Oh well I guess.

Such a shame.

AdamM Nov 25, 2010 12:06 AM

It is funny how it seems everyone to reply this thread is commenting on pronunciation. Who cares how the word is said. The FACT is that none of the "leucistic" ball pythons that are produced are ACTUALLY leucistic/leuKistic. They either have patterns, dark coloring, or yellow splotches. Butter/lesser to another morph produces faint pattern, mojave to mojave produces some coloration, fire to fire can and will produce yellow splotches. There are NO leucistic Ball Pythons. Yet everyone is hung up on how the word is said? It doesn't matter, they are all just whitish snakes. Sorry for ya.

herpenthusiast Nov 25, 2010 09:22 AM

I think some take offense because about half of his article was a rant about the pronunciation. What is funny is that the whole basis of his rant about the pronunciation of leuk/leuc was the original greek and latin root, which he stated originally meant "white". Last time I checked a BEL is "white", so leukistic/leucistic may not be a medically correct term, but it is correct according to the original greek/latin.
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Jake

blupanther Nov 25, 2010 09:58 AM

I feel so stupid, I've been calling my white snake leucistic based on a latin term that means "white". I also recently was told my "spider" is actually a snake. Then I read an article authored by a geologist who pointed out that there are a group of hobbyists who refer to thier snakes as lesser platinums, when in fact, they are animals that do not contain any trace elements of the precious metal. What a bunch of ignorant yokels we are.

Fact is, as a group of hobbyists, we are working with genes that have not been described yet by science, so we have to coin our own names. I don't think leucistic or Blue Eyed Lucy is such a horribly inaccurate name, especially since it basically means "white" according to this article. Medically correct? No. Linguistically correct? Yes.

I do appreciate the content of the article for informational purposes, but I feel the author was a bit narrow minded and condescending, especially on the pronunciation point. It has been previously pointed out that there are plenty of latin based words spelled with a LEUC that are pronounced with a soft C in MODERN ENGLISH.
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-Jake
1.2 L.t. annulata
0.1 L.g. californiae
2.1 Pseudemys nelsoni
1.0.1 Geochelone sulcata
1.1 Geochelone elegans
0.1 mexican double yellowheaded amazon parrot

herpenthusiast Nov 25, 2010 10:12 AM

LOL, yeah, lets coin a new word for "whitish" snakes. Let's see, we could use the latin root word for white, which is leuc, and add ish. No, leucish doesn't sound right, how about leucistic? Yes that has a nice ring to it, we could call then blue eyed lucys or BEL for short.

Oh wait, that is what we already call them.
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Jake

SlytherLyn Nov 25, 2010 12:58 PM

.

You hit the nail on the head. Well said.

.
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Slytherin Serpents

Have you been hugged by your snake today?

Ball Pythons
1.1 Normals het Caramel (Edward & Bella)
0.1 Normal 66% ph Caramel (Rosalie)
0.1 Caramel (Bellatrix)
1.0 Honey Bee (Aragog)
0.1 Hypo Pastel (Nagini)
0.1 Spider 66% ph Hypo(Nymphadora)
1.1 Mojaves (Lucius & Renesme)
0.1 Pastel Lesser (Narcissa)
0.1 Pinstripe (Arwen)
1.0 Pewter (Salazar)
0.1 Bumble Bee (Alice)
0.1 Lemonblast (Luna)
1.0 Bell Pastel (Jasper)
0.1 African Dinker (Esme)
0.1 Normal (Madame Olympe Maxime)
0.1 Het Pied
0.3 Normal Babies 66% ph Caramel (Edward x Bella)
1.1 Pastel "Dinker" Babies (Snape & Madame Hooch)

Corns
1.1 Normals het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo (Romeo & Juliet)
0.1 Blizzard het Diffused (Tumnus)
1.1 Blizzards poss het Anery, Hypo, Diffused
0.1 Anery Lavender het Amel (Lucy)
0.1 Plasma poss het Hypo (Victoria)
1.0 Plasma poss het Albino
1.0 Hypo Plasma
0.1 Opal (Jewel)
0.1 Amel Motley
0.1 Diffused poss het Anery
0.1 Diffused poss het Anery, Albino, Charcoal, Hypo
0.1 Lavender Motley poss het diffused
1.0 Charcoal Ghost poss het Anery, Albino, Diffused
0.1 Charcoal poss het Albino, Anery, Diffused, Hypo
0.1 Fire poss het Anery, Charcoal, Hypo (LeeLoo)
0.1 Normal het Albino, Lavender, Anery, Charcoal, poss het Diffused
1.0 Albino het Lavender, Anery, Charcoal, poss het Diffused

Hog
0.1 Tri Color (Molly)

JYohe Nov 25, 2010 05:55 PM

I tried again to read it....I made it pretty far then stopped....past piebaldism....etc...

I learned...I am really glad I didn't go to college ....with this type of writing....with all the doodads and extra rigamaroll....how do you spell rigamaroll???....LOL....why?...

you could write all of that in 90% less space and wordings...

......and ....amel is still red/orange/yellow...to us...leucistic is still leucisitc.....and ....yea...it's spelled leucistic....why is this paper using a K.....are we that dumb we have to have a K in it so we know it's leukiss-ticks....?....we cannot just assume that the c sounds like a k?...

wow...I been dissed....

.....and they don't call me...Tader Salad....

....good stuff.....I bet...David Barker liked it...for he is the only person I ever met that actually talks like a scientist and not just one of us, hobbyists,herpetoculturalists...etc...common speak....Dave is cool.....and I understand what he says...but no other breeder talks close to being a scientist.....and I met most of the ""BIG boyz".......

Thanxx...cool stuff.......
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........JY

JackJebus Nov 28, 2010 01:07 AM

All I have to say is I can understand being annoyed by the mispronouncing of a word. I work in the automotive field as my job and do this as a hobby. I will always claim ignorance because I dropped out and gots me a GED! That in many peoples eyes make me seem like an idiot. However, back to the main topic. I have seen a whole bunch of inner city folks pronounce simple car names EXTREMELY wrong. For instance when did Buick get an R in it and be called a Bruick?

Never fun getting a phone call about a cadilac converter for a bruick lesabree (yes le-say-bree) or a pontiac gooole, ford fiso and so on...

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