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The old Conant field guide showed the Florida Kingsnake as a robust, very pale snake. What I see being called Brooksi by most appears to be the "peninsula" king also described in Conant's field guide. Can I assume that the "Florida" King described by Conant is now the "south Florida" and the "peninsula" is now the "Florida" king or Brooksi?

Yeah, generally speaking, that is the "deal". Yellower, pale brooksi types can sometimes be found in other parts of Florida, but the paler examples with more crossbars are generally found in extreme south Florida, from where the "brooksi" was first described. The term "brooks" definitely gets very over-used in the hobby, and many normal Florida kings are referred to as "brooks" kings when in fact they are actually Florida kings.

Actually, although the lighter yellow, paler kings are still referred to as brooksi, they are simply a clinal variant form of floridana.

Hobbyists and breeders still use the descriptive term "Brook's king, or "brooksi" to refer to the lighter forms of floridana.

Of course you have the "peninsular" intrgrade kings too from the more central/northern parts too which can add to the confusion as well, and all of them can be variable too depending on the percentages of intergradation involved.

In my opinion, the darker floridana are best referred to as "Florida kings", and the yellower,paler one's referred to as "Brook's kings", but both are indeed true "floridana".

This pair would certainly be considered brooksi, but it is still argued by some that the less defined patterned individuals more typical of the phenotype from extreme south Florida be the only ones referred to as Brook's kings.

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Yeah they are both Floridana. The Brooks got their name from a well known area where these golden kings were found. The brooks canal in south florida is where they get there name from. Think if it similar to Okeetee Corns, and Miami Corns. Both true Corns, but each having a certain look that distinguishes one from the other. Even so, I have seen corns in south Florida that resemble okeetees quite a bit. The same goes with the Florida King. These days it is extremely hard to find Brooks in the wild, though not impossible.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

In my opinion there are few if any of the old s.FL brooksi in the hobby today....
What we're seeing are selective bred from decent examples but most have way too much color and black as well.
Another thing you may notice is that they are also way too large..
L.g.brooksi was described as a pale snake, creamy in color, and smaller in stature and length than its more northerly brethren.
A 6', bright yellow brooksi just doesn't cut it imo as the real deal.
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

I also remember them having a shorter snout. But aren't they all still floridana? It's not like Brooks are a separate species or even subspecies. Though I do understand that collectors would like to keep the original stock pure if possible. There are many people with bloodlines that suppossedly go back to canal stock but selective breeding even with pure canal stock will reveal hidden phenotypes that are hiding in their genes.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Crimsonking- Well said Mark,and I could not agree with you more!I'm quite sure that most of the guys working with the ones in the hobby today have never seen more than a couple wild caught specimens,let alone caught one!So what do they really have to go by except what was sold to them as "brooksi".Not discrediting anyones breeding stock at all,but you hit the nail on the head with your post.I know you've seen a share of W/Cs and I've caught them and seen a good number from other collectors/wholesalers and none of them are "Yellow" kings! Ya,were definately on the same page here.I'll touch on this topic more when I have more time tomorrow. Alan

I think Brooksi or Yellow Phase Florida Kings from Dade Co. etc can be large. When comparing a captive bred snake to the original description its not the same. I can take a WC King breed it and have its young bigger than the parent in 2 years so size is irrelevant in my opinion. I do also believe like you things are murky for "Brooks" Kings due to all the morphs and stuff.

James

well, I call 'em all FL kings and maybe some s.FL. kings.
Obviously the original description of brooksi was all about wild animals, as was EVERY original description, right?
We aren't decribing and naming new species/subspecies of captive bred kings yet, are we?
Of course there are big kings from the Glades areas and so many were collected and mixed in with all the others over time that there is no sure way to tell what you have, locale -wise.
Brooksi was just a locale specific animal I guess, but they were smaller in general.
Since all the wild kings in FL except in northern areas are floridana now anyway, it makes no difference I suppose.
What we have are captives, plain and simple;(

:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

The longer we line breed to try to keep them the same, the more they change, lol.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra