Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I hope it's not so much that some hate monitor books but the fact that authors are ignorant to proper husbandry-and keep these practices alive with every new publication.I learn something everytime i come on here,i wish that there was CHOICE(book wise) for learning that you guys talk about it.I'm in that group of people that is written about that is learning on the fly,that's to the benefit of my monitors and not so much SADLY.There are two people on here that have two ways but similar to keeping monitors so they can live their life cycles-why no books? thanks Moe

There are definitely many terrible books on monitor lizards out there; the most recently-published being Sprackland's second edition of "Giant Lizards". Here is an in-depth, critical review of this book:

www.varanidae.org/Vol4_No1_Mendyk.pdf

However, there are a few excellent books out there which cover monitor husbandry and breeding. These are published by experienced and highly successful monitor keepers/breeders who are pioneers in the field. Two immediately come to mind, and belong on every enthusiast's bookshelf.

The first is by Bernd Eidenmueller, who, together with Hans-Georg Horn is THE pioneer of monitor keeping and breeding, having consistently bred many species in Germany over the past 30 years. His (2007) book is entitled "Monitor Lizards: Natural History, Captive Care & Breeding", and is published by Edition Chimaira.

The other is a 100 page chapter on monitors by Grant Husband and Matt Bonnett (two of the most successful Australian monitor breeders) inside Mike Swan's (ed.) book entitled "Keeping and Breeding Australian Lizards". Published by Mike Swan Herp Books, Lilydale.

This book has also been (positively) reviewed, if you are interested in learning more about it:

varanidae.org/Vol3_No2_book_review.pdf

I still refer to "The Savannah Monitor Lizard" by Daniel Bennett and Ravi Thakoordyal. You can get it at Pro-exotics if you haven't read it yet.

Agreed, that is an excellent title. Not just because it presents up to date monitor husbandry in an easily understood format, but because it is affordable.

Not quite as affordable since it went out of print, but still, at $20, it is within the reach of most keepers.

The reality is that the AVS Sav book, or other common monitor books, will outsell the Bennett Ravi Sav book by 10 to 1, all because they are $10 each.

Those other inexpensive books are largely worthless, and even worse actually harmful with their terrible husbandry, but folks want to buy the cheapest possible thing, just like they so often do with their monitor.

I wish every snake keeper would buy the $80 VPI Ball python book, but they won't. I wish the other high end monitor books mentioned in this thread were more popular, but they are too expensive and too hard to find.

Books are largely a losing proposition. It takes a ton of work to put one out, and if they aren't $10 retail, they don't sell that well.

And who is going to be so bold as to write a book with limited success, talking about how to be a success? : )

Frank is too busy and cantankerous... : )
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robyn@proexotics.com

ShipYourReptiles.com
Pro Exotics Reptiles

It's easy for me to say,i'm not bankrolling the book LOL.But it would be nice to see a book in more depth,than the savannah book.Do those european books have husbandry methods approved by the experienced on this site.I'm all for pictures,but if i am going to spend a lot of money on a book-it must be informative and current.Though there is a huge snake market,books like The Complete Chondro did take a chance-and was successful.Now we have The More Complete Chondro.Right now as far as books go we're at the Incomplete Just Getting Started Sifting Through the Misinformation About Monitors Book by Herbie "I just wrote a book about bicycle repair before this one"Johnson

The Complete Chondro is a great book, but I am not sure how successful it is. It made a second edition, but based on what numbers?

5000? 10,000? Is it even worth Greg Maxwell's time? I don't believe he is even breeding snakes anymore.

We promote that book on our site as a "Must Have", being one of the best reptile books out there, regardless of species. Excellent content and thoughtful info and theory. But it is an "expensive" book.

And we sell one copy every blue moon. For what Greg has put together, he should sell a million copies. But he won't.

Just because a book is excellent doesn't make it economically viable...
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robyn@proexotics.com

ShipYourReptiles.com
Pro Exotics Reptiles

It's interesting that a good monitor book might not promote any pet based products than let's say calcium supplements and whole prey items,technically an interest that can be supported through your local hardware store.You are right Robyn,but success is subjective and is based on percentage of the market.That his book got to a second printing i would think both Greg and his publisher would rate it as a success.

**Frank is too busy and cantankerous... : )**

ROTFLMAO!!

To most a book is like the bible...they belife everything about it...reptiles literatures should be enjoyed for the nice photographs...unfortunatly these are poluted with adds for usless products and bad husbandry advise...I have writen an 800 page book on asian monitor husbandry...my book is sitting here just whaiting to find a poblisher that will not polute its content with marketing garbage...in my book I clearly state that no 2 husbandry of the same lizard in equal...because there is to many uncontroled variables...this is why varanid husbandry can not be writen in stone, it's an ongoing renewal and the keeper must always be willing to learn and improuve.

Keepers going back to literature for referance never supass them...there husbandry become stangnant and they lose interest.

It'll be a great book Jobi!
You have a try in europe i presume?

Once I belived it was the best book on the subject ever...as the years go by I realise things change...I have changed my husbandry has changed...when I reread my work I find it very funny as it make me think of MKB and all his so darn important library...thruth is I will never publish because its just an other piece of arrogant garbage.

asking questions here is far more usefull

one day I will poblish a photo album of wild aisian monitors

things evolve,new ideas-it's nice to see how monitor husbandry has evolved .Is it not true you don't learn without failure.

Does anybody find it all too-convenient that Jobi speaks of all of these incredible personal experiences and accomplishments, yet when asked to prove them or show even the slightest bit of evidence to support any one of them, there is never any follow-through?

For those of you who are new to this forum, here are just some of the "tall tales" Jobi's told over the past several years on this and other monitor forums. Not surprisingly, none of them have ever been authenticated, despite countless curious requests by others.

* he owns and operates a monitor breeding farm in Canada which supplies monitor hides to the leather industry

* he has bred numerous monitor species

* he discovered a new monitor species from Africa (unfortunately, the picture he posted to support his claim was just a V. bengalensis)

[* he has in his possession, and/or has in the past kept many undescribed monitor species- including the recently (2010) described Varanus obor, which was unknown to reptile collectors/dealers operating out of the immediate vicinity. (see: forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1808268,1809150

* he has traveled to Indonesia/New Guinea and developed techniques for local trappers/collectors to employ when capturing monitors for the pet trade

* he is sailing from Quebec across mainland Canada, across the 10,000-plus mile breadth of the Pacific Ocean in this tiny dingy: forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1830157,1830157 to Indonesia. Here he will allegedly go island hopping in the Maluku Province, a region designated by the Indonesian government as off-limits to foreign visitors and tourists (and even scientific researchers)

* now, he has apparently written an 800 page monograph on the husbandry of Asian monitors- an undoubtedly painstaking job which must have taken him at least a decade to prepare, but is now having 'second thoughts' about actually having it come to fruition when somebody actually expressed interest in seeing it and encouragement to get it published...

Are there any others that I'm forgetting?

We always get sidetracked,from what usually starts as a good subject.I've learned and thought of things from a different perspective because of Jobi, things that have helped in my husbandry for the benefit of my monitors.It's hard to realize there are people out there that are not all about ego-sometimes you just have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Dang you should write my biography...but then youd be prouving my point ad adding to all the crap alredy.

wow and I thot I had a boring life haha

ps. thers no bengalensis in central africa!!!

you'd think with all the money he must have to do all the stuff he says that he could afford some manners...but then again that would go against the Canadian way of life

you don't have to agree with people's views but if you call them out you better have evidence to the contrary.i'm not sure of your contribution(positive)to this forum-but i know Jobi's has been infinite.There are alot of Canadians on this site such as myself that don't have borders for knowledge-i have great respect for Americans and others on this site from other countries that contribute to monitor husbandry.

yes one other. the complete BAN of all monitors from Indonesia for 2010. Well nothing was known by CITES or the Indonesia government but Jobi knew the ban would come....

To my knowledge there are NO reptile farms producing leather for the industry OUTSIDE ASIA!!

I think the accomplishments don't matter.

There is a clear ego fight in this forum. I have been using forums for close to 10 years now and this always happens, but in this particular one this ego fight has become pretty ridiculous and does nothing but keep hobbists appart.

Although I know nothing about monitors, Im pretty used to this ego crap that always shows up.
Unfortunatelly this forum user ego is far more prevalent than the keeper ego over the animals.

My advice to others is to be patient, gather as much information as they can, use the good advices and discard the bad ones or the ones they think didn't work for them.

One must use his own brain make good use of the usable part of the information available, because yes, there is definitely usable information here.

Have a nice week everyone.

My thoughts on books.

There are a lot of excellent reptile related books and documents. Books are fun to read and some have fantastic pictures that inspire. But,

Usually when it comes to reptile husbandry. The primary reason people write these books is to promote themselves and their product. The product being whatever species they are selling or in the case of something like ball pythons. Its about capitalizing on what's hot. Self promotion not education is the goal. This is something to keep in mind.

Does anyone really need an entire book on how to care for ball pythons?

The truth is for most mainstream species found in the trade. Everything you need to know can be summed up in a couple of paragraphs. From there its a matter of follow thru and common sense. There are no mysteries.Its all very straight forword.

You pick the species and catagory..... pythons, boas, monitors, skinks, turtles etc. Everyone one of these categories has people or groups of people that are "specialist" that think or want others to think. What they are doing is special. They like to make things harder then they have to be. Its part of the mystic of being an expert. In turn novice keepers like to make things harder then they have to be. Its seems like the more complicated they make things the more they get out of their hobby. Thats fine but 99.9% of the time the animal isn't getting anything out of this. Sometimes it ends up being to the animals detriment.

The truth is with few exceptions. Its all real basic bread and butter stuff. With monitors if the goal is to keep them happy. Its very simple. Simple does not require an entire book to explain.

ERNIE EISON
WESTWOOD ACRES REPTILE FARM INC.

I really agree with you, Moe.

More quality books should be written. And I do think they help. Good books may not only bring information about husbandry, but also about the species biology and habits, which makes comprehension ot the husbandry techniques far easier, and allow, in a second moment for people trying to create their own solutions and eventually making progress with a given species.

For people who know next to nothing about monitors, I'm pretty sure a book could be of great help.

There is a lot of fine information around that could be gathered in a fine book. It could, to say the least, save a bunch of little monitors lifes.

Apart from that, there's the joy of reading. I can't browse forums while I'm in the car on a long ride, in a plane, or on the crapper.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa