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Crossed a Granite Mojave to our Proven Granite line and got two of these along with some really nice granites. Have no idea what this little guy is, but he's pretty cool looking and has Granite speckling, will post again after shed.
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Debra and Diana
Camlon Reptiles
Wow, that's interesting. Looks like a lesser (not saying it is, just commenting on appearance). Looking forward to seeing post shed photos.
Congrats.
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Cheers,
Jessica Gibbs
Ball Pythons; Corn Snakes; Green Tree Python; Jungle Carpet Python; Bci; Bcl; Bco
www.supercoilconstrictors.com
LEARNING PREVENTS IGNORANCE OF THAT WHICH SURROUNDS YOU...AS LONG AS THE SOURCE FROM WHICH YOU LEARN IS A VALID ONE.
but we don't have Lesser's, so go figure. Maybe we've unlocked the genetic code to the Mojave, Lesser and Butter! Just kidding. He does have speckling although it's difficult to see until he sheds.
Thanks for looking.
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Camlon Reptiles
Maybe there is something going on like with the Platinum where there is some "hidden" gene that makes it and found it in your Mojo or Granite?
Whatever it is, what a great surprise in your clutch.
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Cheers,
Jessica Gibbs
Ball Pythons; Corn Snakes; Green Tree Python; Jungle Carpet Python; Bci; Bcl; Bco
www.supercoilconstrictors.com
LEARNING PREVENTS IGNORANCE OF THAT WHICH SURROUNDS YOU...AS LONG AS THE SOURCE FROM WHICH YOU LEARN IS A VALID ONE.
I agree it definitely looks like a lesser. If there's no chance of a lesser having been involved you may have unlocked something for sure. Good luck!
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Dave
High End Royal Pythons
that just looks too much like a lesser. any chance the female retained sperm from one?
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www.bamreptiles.webs.com
www.facebook.com/bamreptiles
so, no way it could be a Lesser. We don't even have Butters anymore, so that's not possible either.
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Camlon Reptiles
That's a lesser! Just kiddin' A Mojo Lesser would've been my guess! Very cool! You can definately see the "mojo" influence!
i don't see any mojave influence, but that's just me. doesn't look like any of my mojaves but it looks 100% like my lesser. what i had meant was, you didn't say you got the female, i was wondering if maybe she had been bred to a lesser at some point before y'all got her.
it just seems too odd that mojave something would come out looking 100% like a lesser, but i guess stranger things have happened. only way to know will be to breed it
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www.bamreptiles.webs.com
www.facebook.com/bamreptiles
I'm thinking retained sperm also. Unless there is no way possible that that could be the case. I'm pretty sure some one put a lesser her way at some point.
You don't see that classic Mojave "melting" side pattern towards the belly? Something also occured to me! Since we know it's Mojo, it couldn't also be Lesser, cause if it was, it would be a Lucy!
mojaves also tend to have eyes in the ghosts, lessers dont, and i dont see one eye on that hot sucker, plus the color is SPOT on for a lesser.
like i said i wouldnt say its impossible for something like that to happen. but the simplest explanation is the female was bred to a lesser at some point in the past and retained sperm til this clutch. ( i forget what the name of that theory is )
if that is 100% just not possible, well then idk. but you would have to breed the "lessers" out before you could really know what it is to have a name for it.
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www.bamreptiles.webs.com
www.facebook.com/bamreptiles
We need to see the entire clutch post hatching. That would make it really interesting to see it besides it's siblings.
We've never had Lessers period and the female is the original Granite (we've had for 7 years) that we used to produce our proven Granite line. The breeder male is a Granite Mojave that we produced here. I can't figure this one out either, but the hatchling looks like a Lesser with Granite speckling. The female was breed only to the GM this season and last.
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Camlon Reptiles
yes, i understand you have never had a lesser. you didnt say how you got her. so if you got her when she was basically an adult already its possible someone before you bred her to a lesser. thats more what i was getting at
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www.bamreptiles.webs.com
www.facebook.com/bamreptiles
I was wondering this as well. Is it possible a Lesser got to her in the time before you purchased her? Perhaps the longest retained sperm ever?
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Lincoln, NE
0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly
2.1 Normals, 1.0 Thayeri, 0.1 Thayeri X Alterna, 0.1 Whitesided P. catenifer sayi, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband
from the breeding.
OK in repsonse to retained sperm she laid last year, and also we've only bred her to a Mojave or Granite Mojave the entire time we've owned her. No lesser has ever gotten to this animal becuase as I stated before we've have never owned a Lesser. She was bought as an adult from a pet owner (only snake he owned) years ago. He was going to college and we bought her to use as a breeder. First year we bred here to a Mojave and produced GM's was 2007.
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Camlon Reptiles
That is very odd, as that looks exactly like a lesser, a top quality one at that. I am very curious how things will turn out as it gets older and starts breeding.
Congrats on what ever it is!
they look way different than these guys.
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Camlon Reptiles
they are much darker than this animal and the pattern is different too.
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Camlon Reptiles
Is it possible for a female to retain sperm from a previous mating for a couple of seasons AFTER being bred to other males? That sound a little difficult to say the least...
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Neutiquam erro. Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
the Granite female we used was purchased from a guy that owned her for about 2 years as a pet and she was the only Ball he owned. I picked her up here in CA when he was going away to college back in the day when people were selling females for $50. When we got her we bred her to a Mojave and produced our Granite Mojaves and grnaites. She has never been bred to a Lesser because we don't own a Lesser and never have owned a Lesser.
Again the only animal she's been bred to for the past 3 years has been a Granite Mojave.
I don't know what they are, but will post more images after shed to see what they look like then.
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Camlon Reptiles
That animal looks exactly like what I have been speculating a chocolate mojave would look like. It is very interesting. I also find it had to believe that a female could retain sperm for so long after producing viable eggs from a different male, but hey I guess we learn new stuff about these snakes everyday. What does seem odd to me is that the "granite" mojave is so dark but when crossed back to the original female produced these two light animals. You would speculate the babies to end up even darker from that cross? I don't know but good luck. Your might have some kind of new chocolate or sable, or something that is on the same base pair or chromosomes as the chocolates and sables. Good luck
Will
Here is the combo of my Garcia line chocolate and mojave. I do see some granite speckling in some of my chocolates and even got a blackback chocolate this year.
Thanks Randy. I was hoping you would swoop in with this picture. To me the adult male granite mojave from Camlon looks a lot like your chocolate mojave. I havent seen hatchling pics of your guy though. What do you think since you see that guy everyday? Does it look as much like Camlon's granite mojave as I think? thanks man
Will
The Granite Mojo isn't the animal in question. It's the ones that look different.
Umm thanks, but I can read. They are calling the father a "granite mojave" but when they posted a baby pic of him he looks like what I speculate a baby chocolate mojave would look like. If we can figure out what the parents really are then maybe we can figure out what "the one in question" is. Thanks for pointing out the obvious though.
Will
Unless I can't read ( and I am sure that is probably the case) the father isn't a mistery. It is a Granite Mojo that they produced. IDK but I dont remember reading any thing different. and this is what whas said:
****the Granite female we used was purchased from a guy that owned her for about 2 years as a pet and she was the only Ball he owned. I picked her up here in CA when he was going away to college back in the day when people were selling females for $50. When we got her we bred her to a Mojave and produced our Granite Mojaves and grnaites. She has never been bred to a Lesser because we don't own a Lesser and never have owned a Lesser.
Again the only animal she's been bred to for the past 3 years has been a Granite Mojave. ****
IDK for sure, just stating what I recalled.
"The breeder male is a Granite Mojave that we produced here"
Super Granite that we produced in 2007. Unfortunately it died, so we don't have any other images to show. We also produced it from breeding a Granite Mojave to the same Granite female.
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Camlon Reptiles
That is a new line of sable/chocolate for sure.
Will
The mother I believe he said was a granite not a mojo, so it wouldn't be a BEL. It would explain the speckling on the side.
Isn't that the same picture shown in the first post?
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Neutiquam erro. Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
Good looking critter. Congrats.
Brent
BRB Reptiles
I just wish I knew what the he is? I guess it's time to come up with a new name...
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Camlon Reptiles
Nice little guy you got there. First thought that comes to mind is maybe your granite is a het platinum and that might be what a mojo platty looks like. Just speculation. Regardless, he's a cool-looking little bugger.
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Russell Lawson
www.russreptiles.com
wow, that's really cool looking. Any chance we can see the parents? I really don't see much granite influence. I know that it looks like a lesser...but since it doesn't have that in it could it be possible both parents are het. caramel? Yeah, I know that you should be able to tell the diff between caramels and lessers...just trying to think of a possibility. Maybe it's something new...
Great lookin' snake, thanks for sharing.
W. Smith
Mojo daddy???
No, I produced a few "mojave daddy"/mojave x het platinum animals this year. Ralph produced one too. The animal that Camlon produced looks totally different. I have no idea what their animal is but it looks pretty cool!
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-Jeff
http://jefflumanreptiles.com
Maybe it's a super granite mojo. Not impossible right?
Looking at how good the dad looks, I don't know why people are having a hard time thinking that maybe, just maybe...this is something other than a lesser! Besides, just because it sorta looks like a lesser now, who knows what'll look like after a couple sheds. I've seen how radically different Chuck's paints look after just a couple sheds, so who's to say that whatever line of granite you're working with couldn't do the same thing to the mojave?
I've heard of a few people who have had mojaves produce lesser looking animals. I've never heard of anyone breeding those and seeing what pops out. Raise it up and see what it produces to a normal.
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