Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My 4 month Knob has been feeding well which is good. He only eats live pinks though and it would be much better all around if he eats frozen.

I've been keeping Alterna longer and not as knowledgeable with Knobs. Folks, what kind of methods and techniques are there to get my Knob to feed on f/t instead? So far he eats a live pinkie only one he is in a container with a paper towel covering the cup. If there is no towel cover then he does not eat it. Also after many attempts he does not eat or strike the pinkie when it is on a tong live or frozen. Even if I fake the frozen to be live (no chance here). He also does not eat it if it is just left in the cage live or frozen. He is currently in a large kritter keeper with a small heat pad underneath on one side. I use these totes for hatchlings. It seems that chances of him eating f/t are slim but maybe you guys may know a way I do not. I also acknowledge that he is only 4 months old but if I can get him to eat f/t, things will be so much easier. He is the only snake I have so far that eats live.

Tony

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You can never have only one snake!

You might try using both a live pink that you have lanced to get blood, and put the blood on the ft one, and feed him both of them at the same feeding. For some reason getting blood to happen from a ft pink is really hard, so that's why I suggest a live one. Rather gruesome, but works for me. He will learn that the ft is edible.

Also it is winter now. In the spring he may be more willing to eat anything you give him.
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Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

>>You might try using both a live pink that you have lanced to get blood, and put the blood on the ft one, and feed him both of them at the same feeding. For some reason getting blood to happen from a ft pink is really hard, so that's why I suggest a live one. Rather gruesome, but works for me. He will learn that the ft is edible.
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>>Also it is winter now. In the spring he may be more willing to eat anything you give him.
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>>Bob/Chris
>>Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

Yeah, I agree waiting till spring would be better. However try making the pinky do the zombie dance with some long forcepts.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I know, I tried one of the oldest tricks in the book. It try it to no avail. He stares at it and moves away uninterested. I think Bob made a good point using a little blood from a live because it is the same thing that he has been eating but placed on a frozen instead.

Spring I'm sure is another good point and as he gets older he will get hungrier and will start to eat live or frozen.

Tony
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You can never have only one snake!

You know i never had great success with Pyros. They never eat enthusiastically for me. They all seemed to be picky eaters and the one i did have that ate like a Floridana just died for no apparent reason. I did notice they liked smaller sized foods though. Many times if they were refusing fuzzies I would offer them a piny and then they would take a fuzzy. But I always fed live.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Wow, that is such an excellent idea! drawing a little blood from a f/t is difficult. I could use a live pink's blood and place it on the f/t like you stated. I'm sure that is the best chance because now he will recognize the frozen pinkie as food instead of just another item sitting in the cage. I never thought of that! Thank you!!!!!!!!

If he still doesn't accept that then I will try a few more times although the cage is being heated, I don't think it matters though. If it doesn't work out after that then I will try in the Spring and instead feed him live pinkies until that time. Some pet stores act like they 'know it all'. I ask them and they usually tell me "Oh, well he is just going to feed on live for the rest of his life".

Hey Bob, I was thinking of scenting the frozen pinkie with Uta scent. Would that be a bad idea? Either way I will give your awesome method a try!

Tony
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You can never have only one snake!

Hey Bob, I was thinking of scenting the frozen pinkie with Uta scent. Would that be a bad idea?
What is Uta scent? Some sort of lizard?

Don't feel bad if he is just not eating like you'd like. Of my 8 baby pyros, only one little female (my littlest one, no less!) is consistently eating. I know they will all get back on track this spring. I feed live mostly but sometimes ft, if I'm letting the mice grow for sale.
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Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

Uta is a lizard that is used often to scent for different types of Kingsnakes especially Alternas. I was thinking that maybe this will be a little shortcut to get him to eat f/t pinks and if he takes it then I just simply scent less and less every time. Then he will become a f/t pinkie eater.

I am actually very lucky he is at least feeding well. I will try that blood off of live to f/t pinkie a few times but if it doesn't work I may even tie a little string on the f/t pinks tail to fake as a live pinkie. After a few things do not work out I will continue on with live pinks until spring arrives.

I have a question though. With this situation, would it be better to keep the heat on all the time or should I keep heat on and turn it off during night time? Right now I currently have it on 24/7.

Tony
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You can never have only one snake!

That is a very nice snake. It's patterns are perfect all the way down. Bravo!

You are right! That is why I picked him. He has such a high band count as well. Here is another picture of him. The light was dim but his red is much more bright. I need to edit the picture. Thank you by the way!

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You can never have only one snake!

defrosting the pink on a warm surface near a light, heat pad, etc., and not placing the pinky in hot water like many do. I have a Transpecos rat that would not take F/T when she was a hatchling. Some suggested defrosting the pink on a warm surface, or at room temp. Defrosting in water apparently alters or diminishes the scent quite a bit. You can also try scenting the F/T pink with a bit of dirty bedding from a mouse colony. May impart a stronger scent the knob is more attracted too.

I usually defrost the f/t by just letting it sit at room temperature, but I guess I will sit it near a heating lamp and you are right. It does have a stronger smell when heated or warmed instead of using water.

Someone using email suggested I could try to use lizard scent on a f/t so he will become a f/t eater. Then I simply scent less every time and eventually he will become an unscented f/t pinkie eater.

Tony
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You can never have only one snake!

That is a nice one for sure.

I had some thayeri that were picky like that. I let them cool down at night into the 50s and had heat at the cage back during the day. Some stayed on the cool end during the day, some went back and forth a little. They pretty much did not feed for awhile, but by Feb all were eating thawed with no tricks. I think the access to very cool temps helps for some reason. Worth a try. Oh, and moist hides. Moisture is necessary. No moisture and baby montane kings just want to go down into the ground. I don't mean a water bowl, I mean a moist hide. Water bowls are almost useless in that respect.
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Mark

Thanks! He is such a bright red snake as well!

Yes. After Bob told me about the moss in a container I leave one in his cage now. I noticed that he really likes hanging out in the container. He sits in there a few times a day. I guess like you said, I should shut off heating during night time and he might very well cooperate with f/t during Spring!

Tony
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You can never have only one snake!

I have not read all of the replies, but I do want to say that a moist sphagnum moss hide is necessary along with a great temperature gradient......

That will let them know that whatever they eat they will be able to digest properly.....

Also, to get them from live to thawed I usually split f/t pinks or brain f/t pinks....Place them in a dark container (like a meahllworm bowl) and cover with the lid....I place the small container with the snake and the brained or split f/t pink on or near the hot spot of the enclosure and turn off all the lights........Check back in an hour to see if they ate.....

If they refuse, then brain a few live ones for a couple of feedings and then try the brained f/t pink on the third feeding......This may sound cruel or gross but it works for me....With the hatchling Thayeri, Mex Mex, Alterna, Pyros, Knobs and Zonata that I have worked with.
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

I think that braining a live pink would work but I don't think I will have the guts to do that. Although I've tried many crazy feeding methods in the past, that is one I usually try to avoid. LOL he's eating at the least so I'm sure he will turn around by Spring. F/t pinkies are 95% of what I feed to my colony so I feel bad to even give live pinkies to the Knob. I know this sounds soft but out of a lot of crazy things I've tried, braining a live is a hard task for me. Just seeing the pinkie squirming for its life softens me. Kudos for you Jim for being able to pull it off. I don't have the guts to do that =) lol. I appreciate the suggestion and I will definitely use that if it comes to the point. I have a moss container in his cage now.

Tony
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You can never have only one snake!

*Kudos for you Jim for being able to pull it off. I don't have the guts to do that =) lol.

I'm sorry, don't know why I put Jim, I mean John. Totally different name too.

Tony
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You can never have only one snake!

>>*Kudos for you Jim for being able to pull it off. I don't have the guts to do that =) lol.
>>
>>I'm sorry, don't know why I put Jim, I mean John. Totally different name too.

No problem Tony.....
Good luck!
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Heh, appreciate it *John* lol.

Tony
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You can never have only one snake!

Just seeing the pinkie squirming for its life softens me.
Yesterday I did a major harvest of pinks and fuzzies, as only one tiny pyro and one huge gopher snake are still eating. It is very unpleasant to have to invade the warm cozy mouse nest and take the babies away and freeze them. But if I didn't harvest I'd soon have a zillion mice! This is farm stuff, same as with pigs and cattle and poultry. If I hadn't been a farmer by trade I don't think I could do this. In the spring I have all those bags of fts, so it is worthwhile. Still, I do wish the snakes could eat cat food! LOL! Or these:
www.naturalbalanceinc.com/zoological/reptilediet.html
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Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

Or these:
>>www.naturalbalanceinc.com/zoological/reptilediet.html

LOL...I haven't seen snake sausages in years....I didn't think they still made them since they NEVER worked for anyone that tried them........Anyone remember Snausages?.....LOL
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

I remember an irritating TV commercial for those dog treat Snausage things.
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Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

>>
>>I remember an irritating TV commercial for those dog treat Snausage things.

There used to be Snake Snausages too......You could buy lizard maker or mouse maker liquid to drop on them and scent them......

They didn't work.....LOL
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

LOL, I heard about those as well. Didn't work for a single customer, well at least from the people that told me. I wonder if it was just a money making tool until news was brought out that they didn't work huh?
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You can never have only one snake!

LOL, that was pretty darn funny! You know that's a good idea. My collection isn't big but maybe instead of spending money every week for a live pinkie I could just have a breeding pair of mice and just keep one to feed my Knob and the rest to freeze. In fact...I will definitely try that! Thanks!

Tony
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You can never have only one snake!

Go in steps:

1) Offer one regular sized live in the covered deli. You've already completed this step.

2) Offer a smaller than normal live in the deli and right after it takes that leave another smaller than normal live in the cage.

3) When it gets to where it will take the 2nd pink live in the cage for a few feedings, abandon the deli and start offering just one regular sized live in the cage.

4) When it has taken the regular sized live in the cage a few to several times, offer it a smaller than normal live in the cage plus at the same time offer another smaller than normal frozen in the cage.

5) When it regualrly eats both the smaller then normal live and the smaller then normal frozen in the cage a few to several times, offer just one normal sized frozen. Or offer two small frozens.

Most knobs become very aggressive feeders. If you give it time you probably won't even need to follow those steps. Once it gets to where it will take live in the cage you could probably just keep feeding it live and it will automatically get to where it rushes up every time you open the cage, like it expects food. At that point you could probably just throw a frozen in there and it should take it. It may take several months before it gets that aggressive but it almost surely will.

By the way, nice looking knob!
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