Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Forgive me for posting this again, I have posted it in replies to similar topics and haven't gotten much of a response.

Anyway, I put my N. Pines down for the Winter about 5 wks. ago, they went off feed in early October. I have a dedicated snake room in my house and I have tried to get temps as low as possible, in hopes of breeding them next year. Problem is, I cannot get temps into the low 50's consistently. I live in an older house and the walls are thin and poorly insulated. I have covered the vents and I even leave the window open a few inches (the wife wants to kill me for this). Daytime temps are usually around 58-60 degrees, and the lowest it has been is around 54 at night (even when it is in the 20's outside). What worries me is that my Male and Female Northerns are out and about during the day. I have provided a large tupperware in her enclosure and have cypress mulch about three in. deep. Do I need to worry about this? Are these temps low enough to get them to breed next Spring? I am not to concerned about weight, but really would like to breed them.

On a side note I also have a pair of adult black pines which are in the same room. These snakes have taken to brumation with no problem. I am assuming this is do to the fact that they are from the South and the Northerns are from a Jersey line.

Any info. would be appreciated!

Those temperatures are fine. You can brumate pines at 60 degrees and still get good results. Temperatures are less important than the light cycle - which is the key factor in triggering pine snakes to breed.

Pituophis often go off feed in the fall. As far as being active, brumation is simply a cooling of the snakes - it does not imply that they "shut down" and do nothing (though they might). Snakes being brumated can do a variety of things that non-brumating snakes do - crawl around their cage, shed their skin, drink water, hide, etc. The main difference is that brumating snakes aren't fed, because the temperature is not warm enough for them to digest food.

Tim

Third Eye

As far as being active, brumation is simply a cooling of the snakes - it does not imply that they "shut down" and do nothing (though they might).
LOL! My snakes like to mess up the water bowls with moss and aspen so I have to check them every few days!
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Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

Very informative Tim. I've come to suspect all that. Nice to have the affirmation.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

Have you taken temperature measurements on the floor near the north wall? The floor is always colder than the rest of the room.
I have my brumating snakes in my bedroom on the floor in tubs wrapped in quilts. Even when I heat the cabin up during the day the temperatures in the tubs stay in the mid 40's to low 50's. Some of my snakes are montane species which do better at low temps. The quilts hold the temps stable, and if it gets too cold I just open the quilts a bit and let ambient air in. I am in the Sierra Nevada foothills, so getting things cold enough is not a problem! LOL! I use indoor outdoor thermometers to read the conditions; put the outdoor probe in with the snakes and the indoor part on top of the tub so you can read it without having to disturb anything.

If getting the temps down is just not happening for you try putting frozen gel packs wrapped in a towel in the tubs. Don't forget to wrap the tubs in some sort if insulation, or they will wind up at the ambient temperature of the room rather quickly.
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Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

Thanks for all of the input. Pyro, I do have multiple thermometers in different areas of the room, there are a few spots that are cooler, but usually only about a degree or two.

I'm glad to know that even though temps are down, the snakes don't always "shut down" completely. It is interesting to me though that the pair of black pines are basically "shut down," but the Northerns are not.

As far as light cycles go, over the winter I do not use any lights. I just let light in through the window on a natural light cycle. When I do decide to warm them back up would it be best to use a 12/12 cycle at first, or should I start with even less light?

I start warming mine up in late February. I just use the light that comes through the windows.
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Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire