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But, I feel as though the true beauty of the red-tail boa is being taken for granted. It seems like more and more people are concerned about producing boas based on how RARE the offspring is and how much money they can make off of them before everybody starts producing them en masse, instead of focusing on the true beauty of these wonderful creatures.

No offense, but the patternless boas that keep popping up come to mind. I mean, let's be honest, if a regularly patterned BCC boa and a patternless were side by side AND held the same value, I'm guessing most people would choose the regular boa. To me, the patternless boas are just boring to look at. The only reason we seem to be paying them any attention is because they are rare, not because they are visually attractive.

I know I'm probably going to catch some heat for this, but I had to get it off of my chest.

No heat from me, but think about this: Gravel is cheap. Diamonds are very costly. Why? One is common, the other is rare. Rarity drives price in virtually every commodity.

The only value in the patternless boas (and other morphs) is in their rarity. If they were as common as normals, they would be valued like normals. People used to pay $1000 for an albino, when they were rare. Now, you can pick up a real nice albino for $200.

Polished brass looks a lot like gold. Gold costs $1,000 an ounce because of rarity. Basic economics.

And I reiterate, no heat from me. Different strokes for different folks.

Well Said...
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Richard Ceniceros

Take it from Richard! He's got morphs, BCC and some of the best "normals" out there. All are fun, all of these niche markets will be around forever, and all have aspects that will be improved through future breedings. That's why we do it

I can remember a time when the patternless boa was the hottest thing ever!

Super Motley's and even Super Jungle's just have a bad rap sheet and given the new comers a bad taste of a patternless or close to it boa constrictor . I was chasing that thing over 7 years ago.. Luckily I never invested into an actually super but why else would I buy a pair of motleys..

Give the Sterling a try with the different recessive traits and Id think the craze would come back. Id just like to know some more info on them before I attempt into snatching some up..

just my opinion..

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.Spencer.

You're completely right. But, will people still think that the patternless boas are as fascinating when they aren't any more valuable than a nice normal or albino? Or will the patternless boas get ignored because they are boring to look at? We look at boas and compliment their features: their tails, their saddles, their peaks...these are features that separate them from other snakes, is all.

Rarity often comes with a higher price, but to say one is nicer than the other is in the eye of the beholder. I would say that most people that produce boas for a long enough period, are 1) Dedicated people who have worked their tails off in a tough business and love their animals 2)The gorgeous redtails that are available today are the product of selective breeding over the last several years. With out the breeders who lay in bed at night dreaming about the next best thing, we wouldnt have too much to look at on K-Snake. I dont get it when people knock other snakes because of their personal preferences. We all work too hard to get hit with cheap shots and back handed slams.

Cheap shots and backhanded slams?

I was unaware that having an opinion and expressing it would be considered a "shot" or "slam".

I can understand the fascination with Albinos, Sunglows, Motleys, etc...because the essence of the boa is "there", but it's enhanced. But boas like the patternless are just boring to look at--regardless of how rare or valuable they are. I think the true test would be to put two boas, a nice "normal" and a patternless in front of a person without any knowledge of the boa morph trade and ask them, "Which of these do find more interesting and/or visually pleasing?" I'm supposing (of course), that most would find the "normal" to be so.

I just find it funny that a boa that is so blah to look can get such a positive response, not because it's attractive, but because it's valuable.

To each their own...and I understand that. As should you.

I think the sterling is a beautiful boa. I think the true redtails are incredible as well. To call someone's project blah is a slam. Their are plenty of true redtails that arent exactly knock outs, but you dont go around and slam them when some one posts a picture of their animal. This post to me is stupid. You are also inferring that its all about the money ??? Give me a break. Their are very few breeders that make a good living from breeding their boas. I love it when I see the the various true redtails, normals ,crosses and other morphs. I wont be ripping somebodys blah animals on this forum any time soon. Even your animals, which would be great if you did post them by the way.

I don't feel slammed. To each his/her own.

I was breeding for good looking pastels and patternless boas popped out. It's exciting (to me) because it's rare, and a rare opportunity to work with a project that hasn't had much success to date.

I think BP's are a total waste. Yucky egg layers. Retics and Burms are penis extensions (IMO), and so I don't have any BP's, retics, or burms. I totally respect the right of anyone else to appreciate and keep any critters that trip their trigger.

I love Boas, so I keep the boas I love.

I applaud your attitude, but I think their are classier ways to discuss the different boa morphs.

I'm normally not to interested in patternless snakes (except for racers), but I gotta say that your sterling boas are pretty cool looking. They look like they are scaleless at a glance. Also, I think an all pink one would be cool, so I may be in the market for one of those in the future to add to my pink line projects.

Dan Eby

I kinda like the patternless snakes. My largest snake I ever owned was a big female Albino green(patternless) burm. And she was a great tame beast. I think the patternless boas would look nice in the hypo/albino form. Sunglow patternless!! Any one else agree?

Or even a patternless bloody albino, or patternless bloody sunglow!

Anthony-

"Retics and Burms are penis extensions (IMO)..."

Say what?

B.

get some attention. ; )

Just joking. Not my cup of tea, and we should all be able to have the tea we like.

Hah! That penis extensions business was pretty funny!

"I just find it funny that a boa that is so blah to look can get such a positive response, not because it's attractive, but because it's valuable. "

I would love to own one of these Sterlings, even if it were sterile -- just for the looks alone . One thing about what attracts me is all of the variations in the Boa Constrictor. I have about 40 Boas, and the collection is comprised of 2-4 group variations ( meaning I have 2 Hypos, 3 normals, 2 Motleys , 2 Leopards , etc . . .) . The last time someone who came over and saw the collection was amazed at the varieties there are. The patternless (fully-patternless Sterlings) are so beautiful by themselves -- but once they become available, and people start playing with all of the bright colors that can be added - That's gonna be cool . They may also be a key to something even more appealing if bred together. So the unknown also makes them more appealing . I really really really like them .
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Snake room janitor

forget danawoma80, hes always right, and if u dont agree with him ur wrong. I think the patternless is boring also. HEY WOMA ITS MY OPINION!!! U KNOW WHAT THAT IS DONT U????
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All about the U!!!!

Im all about opinions, but having some class when discussing likes and dislikes shouldnt be so difficult. Example. "I prefer a nicely colored BCC over a patternless snake. I am also very glad that I dont have to take out a loan to get a nice BCC VS. Some of the new and latest morphs that are out there." In my opinion , I dont belive that we should be calling boas blah at any time.

I respect where you're coming from, but you have to remember that ANYTIME somebody offers a product to the public (and you better believe that boas, especially morphs, ARE products--otherwise, why are you posting on a website that's primary draw has ALWAYS been the classified section) that people are going to criticize and compare them to other products. I even TITLED the thread "I don't know how to put this", Dan, because I knew people like you would be a bit sensitive on this issue.

Im cool with that. Just wanted to see what you really meant. Thanks

Its really a stupid post. One that has been beaten to death already. In my opinion, if you look at those sterlings when next to their normal siblings or any other normal for that matter......and you chose the normal,.......you havent looked at too many boas at there.
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Honesty is my only policy
www.mikepanicreptiles.com

It's a stupid post, why? Because somebody is critical of a product and wants to discuss it? Who's to say that your scenario of looking at the sterlings and their littermates isn't stupid? It's ALL OPINION, right? Just like my opinion of the patternless boas. How about you get over yourself?

I dont get it . "Critical of a product ?" It is a patternless boa. I wont be critical if you paint your wall green and I paint my wall orange. Im done

Yeah...but you're not selling your wall...

But the sterling boa will be sold for some big bucks. Their will be plenty of people that love the patternless boa. A solid pink, red , orange balck.... WOW

why even waste your time.
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Honesty is my only policy
www.mikepanicreptiles.com

Great answer, Mike! That's the spirit!

You're absolutely right. Different strokes...

"Yeah...but you're not selling your wall"

That's easy... If you don't like it, don't buy it. I don't understand why people like you can't just keep your mouth shut and move on if you don't like a boa or it's price.

They're his boas, when he decides to sell them there will be PLENTY of us standing in line to get one. I assure you that he won't have any trouble moving them out.

This really is a stupid thread. I'm surprised it's gone on this long.
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Jeff Carr
West Coast Constrictors
www.westcoastconstrictors.com

"That's easy... If you don't like it, don't buy it. I don't understand why people like you can't just keep your mouth shut and move on if you don't like a boa or it's price.

They're his boas, when he decides to sell them there will be PLENTY of us standing in line to get one. I assure you that he won't have any trouble moving them out.

This really is a stupid thread. I'm surprised it's gone on this long."

Why you feel the need to REITERATE MY POINT and then proceed to hypocritically write that the thread is "stupid" and how surprised you are that it's gone on "this long" is beyond me.

You obviously had nothing to add, but felt so riled up that you just HAD to chime in, eh?

Why do I need to keep my mouth shut? Did I hurt your precious feelings? Welcome to capitalism, sporto! We're talking about a product here. Why are you whining about people expressing their opinions on a DISCUSSION FORUM?!!?

I guess I don't understand why you would bother to take time out of your day to single out a specific morph and bash it. And this is all before any are being offered for sale. It's a simple concept really. If you look at it, and aren't into it... Why bother running your mouth about it? I dig all boas, I keep and work with the ones that float my boat. The others, well they're for someone else, but I don't go out of my way to run my mouth about them and why I don't care so much for them.

I would be willing to bet that you are the type of guy that would email somebody regarding a classified that YOU have found a reason to pick apart, simply to give them a hard time. And I will double that bet that you do it from an anonymous email account.
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Jeff Carr
West Coast Constrictors
www.westcoastconstrictors.com

Well said Jeff. I'll ante up one and say I bet he's the type to whine about how expensive they all are and he'll "wait until they are in his price range"
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Honesty is my only policy
www.mikepanicreptiles.com

"Well said Jeff. I'll ante up one and say I bet he's the type to whine about how expensive they all are and he'll 'wait until they are in his price range'"

"Well said"? Really!?!? Do you find Sarah Palin prolific too?

Anyway...I'm sure you enjoy trying to team up with your buddy Jeff to make yourselves feel better after your feelings got so hurt by MY opinion. But, do you really have a problem with people who "wait until they are in his price range" to purchase snakes? Forget about how LUDICROUS it is for you to come to such a silly conclusion based on an opinion I had about an ugly snake...What kind of herp-snob are you?!?! Do you really think you're better than anybody because you deal with expensive snakes? I sure hope your customers are watching these threads...and don't think they're not.

"I would be willing to bet that you are the type of guy that would email somebody regarding a classified that YOU have found a reason to pick apart, simply to give them a hard time. And I will double that bet that you do it from an anonymous email account."

Hey, detective, how do you come to such a ridiculous conclusion based on a post about an OPINION? Your true colors are showing, Mike. Why don't you grow up and act like a big boy? Just because your silly little feelings got hurt by somebody's OPINION doesn't mean you need to revert back to your junior high school psyche.

Whoops...you're not Mike. My bad. But! You are a childish little whiner who needs to find something else to do other than whine about people's opinions (you can see how I confused you two).

"Whoops...you're not Mike. My bad. But! You are a childish little whiner who needs to find something else to do other than whine about people's opinions (you can see how I confused you two)."

It's cool man. I'm guessing that you are easily confused.

"Hey, detective, how do you come to such a ridiculous conclusion based on a post about an OPINION? Your true colors are showing, Mike. Why don't you grow up and act like a big boy? Just because your silly little feelings got hurt by somebody's OPINION doesn't mean you need to revert back to your junior high school psyche."

This is beginning to sound a lot like Matt Tipton. If you're not Matt, look him up, you two have a lot in common and will no doubt get along famously!

And BTW, I show my colors loud and proud man, my name too! Why don't you give us yours so we can all make sure to avoid doing business with you.

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Jeff Carr
West Coast Constrictors
www.westcoastconstrictors.com

Aaaaaaaaand....

You've still got NOTHING but more junior high retorts.

Yawn...

Prolific doesn't mean what you think it means.

You don't think one of the meanings of "prolific" is "intellectually productive"?

They always hide behind a screen name. Coward.
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Richard Ceniceros

Matt Tipton for sure.
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Honesty is my only policy
www.mikepanicreptiles.com

>>Matt Tipton for sure.

LMAO! Yeah, the couple of posts sure sound like it.
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Jeff Carr
West Coast Constrictors
www.westcoastconstrictors.com

Wow, Richard! You've contributed TWO POSTS to this thread...BOTH of which you simply contributed, more or less, a "ditto".

First it was the highly insightful "Well said." Then you proceeded to say that I hide behind a screen name and that I'm a coward (both claims were made previously by other people--but you really articulated it in such a way that it just "made sense" for everybody. So, thanks for that).

You're right. I MUST be hiding behind my screen name. Ya know...the same screen name I've had for what, EIGHT YEARS or so? Yeah...I'm just some troll, hiding behind a screen name. Right.

That...OR, I'm protective of my and my family's privacy. I don't know...you seem to have all the answers. You tell me...

By the way...this is THE LONGEST THREAD on the boa forum in well over two months (it could be longer, but Kingsnake only has threads through October on here). So, good on ya!

My point? I tried to start a thread about how I felt about a certain boa morph, it probably would've had MAYBE 8-10 replies (if that) and you guys got so mad and your feelings so hurt that instead of letting the thread die (as you EASILY could have--as you KEPT on mentioning), you proceeded to make it the most discussed thread on the forum! GOOD JOB, GUYS!

You ready to talk politics yet?

"I know I'm probably going to catch some heat for this, but I had to get it off of my chest."

Why are you so angry? Here are your own words. So you caught a little "heat". Deal with it
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Honesty is my only policy
www.mikepanicreptiles.com

`

Mike

This is not the first time you've made this statement about Hypo Boas.

Evidently you've never had the pleasure of seeing Adult hypo Boas
like these Pastel Dream Scarlet Hypo's I produced.

You honestly can tell me the color of this male (1st Image) or Fem (last 3 Images) are Boring ?

ScarShry_1M

. . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

Its just my opinion........put any hypo beside a nice superjungle or nice basin redtail and the hypo might as well be invisible in my opinion. I think contrast is what gives boas their visual appeal...... And the trend in breeding these days seems to be to eliminate what made them look so incredible in the first place. Rio Bravo rocks.
Mike

Hey guys no problem everybody is entitled to their opinions. I'm very surprised you don't see how bright and colorful my Pastel Dream Scarlet (OT) Hypo Boas are.

Although I agree many Hypo Boas do muddy with age.Also fems
(non hypo & hypo alike) in general tend to
darken after a litter or two.

I'll be ceratin to post Images of my male Pastel Dream Scarlet (OT) Hypo
and his 2 sisters & brother as the years go by.

I'm fairly certain my hypos will not muddy up or darken very much if at all

Time will tell

Hey Tom beautiful True Redtail Boas . . . . . . . All Boas are Beautiful !

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

No doubt yours is a beautiful snake, but I believe it's the exception to the rule. I've seen glowing spec free super hypo's turn muddy and really dark with age. Even pastels, jungles, and motley with hypo in it muddy up after awhile. I find that very disappointing. I prefer a snake that gets prettier with age. But hey, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and to each his own. It's just my dumb opinion.

I totally agree. Hypo's and supers are pretty when they're young. However, after 5 years or so of age, they really 'muddy' up. I'll never buy anything with the hypo gene in it. That's just my opinion. I prefer a snake that gets prettier with age, for example, pastels and jungles.

This girl I think is FAR from homely.She has No Jungle in her

Mike

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www.junglestruck.com
Honesty is my ONLY excuse (Metallica,Damage Inc.)

I like both morphs and true red tail boas. My true red tails I own will not be cross breed but I do own some morphs I like. My favorite morph right now in the Lip Stick Jungle Sunglow. I don't own one yet but I am working on it. Now here are some nice contrast looking boas for you.

Take care
Tom
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McCarthyBoas.com

You've got some incredible boas there!

Very good point! And while there are a ton of gorgeous morphs, I think too many ppl just throw 2 morphs together for fun to see what they get, hoping for something new. Many boas and even other snakes out there are becoming heinz 57's. And again, I love morphs, but I think there needs to be more conservation and awareness of whats being bred to what. Too many localities are lost, because of money, essentially. And I read about people wanting to breed BCC with BCI, I want to cringe.... its like those who breed kings with corns, totally pointless sad. A kings a king for a reason, same as a corn, or BCC and BCI. Enjoy them for what they are, not what you can make!