Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi, i recently got interested in Pits and i was wondering which type will grow to around 4-5 feet long? It seems like most grow to at least 6 feet, but i'm more comfortable handling something smaller. Thanks.

You might try some of the gopher snakes, capes, great basin and pacifics "normally" are in the range you are looking for. Also ask the breeder about how big the parents are. Big breeder stock produce babies that have the potential to get big.

Here's a link to a thread from below regarding northern mexican pines that have remained small even though they have the potential for going 6'
Link

-----
BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
1.2 P. m. melanoleucus B/W N. J. Northern Pines
1.2 P. d. deppei Mexican Pines
2.2 P. l. lineaticollis Linis or Lined Pines
1.2 P. m. lodingi Black Pines
0.3 P. c. sayi Kingsville X Stillwater red bulls
1.1 Drymarchon melenurus Blacktail Cribo
1.2 D. corais Yellowtail Cribos
1.2 M. s. cheynei Jungle Carpet
2.6 L. p. pyromelana Arizona Mt. Kings
1.1 L. g. californiae B/W Cali kings
0.0.3 M. f. flagellum Eastern Coachwhips
1.2 G. m. bottegoi Western Plated lizards

Thank you.

My san diego gopher snakes all stay near 4-5 ft.

If you really want to work with a dwarf like sub-species, save up your cash and keep an eye out for the Santa Cruz Island Gopher Snake. Pituophis catenifer pumilus:

Adults: 25 to 32 inches
-----
6.7 pituophis c. annectans
1.1 senticolis t. intermedia
1.1 rhinechis scalaris
1.2 lampropeltis m. thayeri
2.1 pantherophis g. guttatus
1.1 lampropeltis t. campbelli

1.1 turbo corns
1.1 jungle corns
1.1 thayeri hybrids (het albino)

Hahaha, yep, aside from my little deppei, that's that smallest. ...BUT, anyone who's got one probably did so illegally since they are protected by the National Park.

Anyway, Pines and bulls don't always go 6 foot. Lots stay under that. Handling is an issue if it is a calm snake, but the poop pile is mega and they need more space of course.

I agree with BigTattoo ...the Cape Gophers (vertebralis) stay pretty small and are really attractive, but also tend to be more shy and sensitive than the other U.S pits.

Great basins can be a really nice medium size pit too.

They're all great snakes. Best of luck finding one to suit you.
-----
See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

Actually that island is a TNC holding with restricted collection, however there are legally obtained, (Grandfathered) stock of Santa Cruz Island gophersnakes (Pituophis c. pumilus) readily available in the pet trade.

They aren't very flashy but represent a really interesting segment of island bio-geography and Pituophis evolution.....

below is a pic of three hatchlings, the biggest to the smallest! These snakes all hatched out within a few days of each other. P. ruthveni is often given credit for being the largest out of the egg but I think this little P.m.lodingi will give them a run for the title......

Yes, TNC does own most, though not all, of the island still, but the NP has been trying to get it. I've had the good luck to be all over the island doing bird surveys. It is one heck of a place but highly restricted.

This snake was found by a friend at Scorpion Bay on the park side.

-----
See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

Very nice shots. What's the island like? I noticed what is probably a non-native brome grass in the images? A friend of mine was out there last Spring but as I recall is was very cloudy and cold during his visit.

I would love to get a chance to look around out there and see P.c.pumilus in habitat......

Were you doing surveys for the NP or TNC? Any endemic birds out there? If memory serves it was historically privately owned and grazed quite heavily....

Thanks again for the images!

Thanks for all the info.

Do they poop even more than Kings?

Much More.

When pits poop you know it. Their poop tends to smell a lot more than kings' poop. I keep an old slotted spoon ladle next to the cages with a little bucket to drop the poops into so it can be taken out to the compost pile. At least cage cleaning is easy with the pits; you will know when they do a number and will be able to find it. When I scoop out the poops in the aspen bedding I take a couple inches of bedding from underneath as well to get the urates/urine. My tiny little pyros make such polite discreet poops I have to sift through the aspen bedding to find it in many cases.
-----
Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

Jason Nelson was working with a ligit Dwarf Bull population from Wyoming I believe- he sold his pair... I wanted some very badly but not sure were to find them. They only get 4-5'. My most colorful Bull- my Texas male is 5' and he just won't seem to grow more. Hes a very nice orange rusty color and a great breeder. I have noticed that sometimes the Kankakee Ill and Newton IN populations do not seem to grow as large as the Tex or Midwest populations.
-----
BULLS: Pr normal (KS&TX), 1 Pr Northern (M Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada & F Minn), Pr Kankakee Co, Ill, CORNS: Pr Okeetee, SC, FOXES: Pr Western, KINGS: Pr Black Eastern (L.g.nigra) Todd Co. KY, Pr. NC Eastern Chains (M from Union Co. & F from Mecklenburg Co.), Pr."Goini", Franklin Co. Fla, Pr. Costal Banded Cal (M Hypo & F normal) Pr Speckled, Harris Co. TX, PINES: Pr Louisiana (pure descendants of Terry Vandeventer stock), Pr Southern (F light phase & M- Aiken, SC), PYTHONS: Pr normal Ball, RATS: Pr Black, Henderson Co. NC, Pr Black (M White Side & F Leucistic), Western Green, F (Mt. Hopkins, Cochise Co. AZ), OTHERS: 10 Tarantulas, 155 Orchid plants, 30 assorted tropical plants and African violets, 3 Freshwater Planted Aquariums with West African Dwarf Cichlids and 2 condo-porch gardens with Bonsai, Roses and etc...

Brad and Ryan are right about Gophers. Great snakes w/ lots of personality and they stay well within your size range. You can't go wrong w/ a San Diego or a Great Basin. Check Jason Nelson's Envy site. He's got some beauties.

reako45