Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just purchased this blonde suboc and another just like and wanted to know what color phase to call it?
Thanks,
Tad Fitzgerald
Link

Here is the photo, I'm asking about the one I'm holding.
Tad

The morph is actually and exactly what you purchased the snakes as, Mustard Blondes.

Son, if you are not able to accurately identify WHAT you actually purchased, after viewing pics sent to you prior, receiving information about them during the transaction,and after you purchased the snakes and received them, perhaps you should think of a different hobby to get into. This actually not only makes you look childish and unprofessional, it also can prevent future dealings with yourself as such.
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Genesis 1:1

Since you called me son I'm guessing you must be around 75-80 yrs old. Anyway, my name is Tad, whats yours? It's always amusing to watch the drama come out in forums and how people like to make comments when its none of their business. I guess people get bored and have nothing better to. I love this hobby and have been keeping reptiles for over 40 years and have had many many dealing with people both buying and selling. I encourage you to find a customer or breeder I buy from who is not 100% satified with how I do business or my animals. I take that back, I guess Randy isn't and all his frieds are jumping on the bandwagon.
God Bless You,
Tad

It is odd that you try to make an issue out of names, to take eyes off of your inability to be civil in a transaction.

My name is Billy, by the way.

You complain about people making comments and I quote, "when its none of their business." Tad, you put this on a public forum, thus making it public business. Duh.

Goodbye.
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Genesis 1:1

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Personally if I saw that snake without knowing anything at all about who produced it or what it's parents looked like, I would say it's just a nice blonde with a slightly more pinkish hue to it than average.

Seeing as how it does come from an accepted Mustard line, you are probably on your way to producing truly Mustard-y looking subocs but IMHO that snake is not very Mustard-y.

Since you originally presented it without giving any of the transaction info that has been brought up by others, I will assume you wanted to keep that side of it private and simply not comment or take sides on that. I think those that had inside information on the deal should not have brought up that info because it robbed you of your chance to get truly unbiased outside opinions.
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www.hcu-tx.org/

These are the parents which I bought directly from Craig T. as yearlings in 2001 as Mustard Blonds. They produced the yearling Tad just posted a picture of. As my breeders did, they become more of the mustard color as they grow.

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Randy Whittington

Here are photos of the yearling pair which Tad received from me, produced from the parents above.

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Randy Whittington

Wow. I know I would be happy with that pair. When I finally get some subocs I know where I'm buying them from.
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Matt Kauffman

Randy, are the differnces in the blond "types" related to the blonde gene being introduced to the various different looking normals, or are other factors like hypomelanism affecting their expressions?? I know some localities of normals are more yellow, greenish, greyish, etc. Just curious.

I think the different blond colors come from different factors. Some localities have unique coloring in general or even individuals from the same area have different coloring sometimes. Some people breed pairs with the same or similar coloring to keep a unique look and others have bred different locals, colors and pattern types to see what they produce. Someone like Dusty might be able to elaborate on this as he has studied trans-pecos in great detail.
My understanding with the mustard blonds is Craig T. bred ones with much of the same color(a deeper orange or mustard color than other lines of blonds)to reproduce their unique color. When I bought mine from him as yearlings they had a defferent, more orange color than other lines I had seen. They vary somewhat. As you can see my female, which looked the same color as a yearling turned out to be lighter than my male. Here are my adult silvers which as you can see the female turned out to be not as bright as the male although like the mustard blonds, the silvers are from the same line.

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Randy Whittington

Those snakes are gorgeous, Randy.

>>Just purchased this blonde suboc and another just like and wanted to know what color phase to call it?
>>Thanks,
>>Tad Fitzgerald
>>Link

I'd call it a "Blonde from Mustard parents". I will tell you this: I purchased a Mustard Blonde baby from those same adults of Randy's and WOW, that animal turned out SO nice! It was the butteryiest, yellowiest snake I've ever owned.

Here is my $0.02 on what occurs with variation in TPRSs (including Blondes, and in many other species of organisms too). The Blonde pattern is recessive. So that's taken care of, but what about the various shades of color that Blondes (and all TPRSs) can have? It's due to multiple genes acting in concert to produce the finished product that you see. This is much the same in human skin and hair color. Because of recombination and a random assortment of genes meeting in the sperm and egg, each baby inherits a different number of "color alleles". Some with the right combination come out mustardy, some more tan, others more buttery. Yes, even from two Hotdog Mustard parents, you will have some variation in there. We might call this mode of inheritance "polygenic" or 'incomplete dominance".

A famous example is breeding red flowered plants with white flowered plants and getting pink offspring (see the snapdragon flower example below). And then look what happens when you breed the pinks back to each other...you get quite a mixture. In the example, if you were to breed one of the dark red specimens with a pink flower, you'd probably get a pinkish-red intermediate. So, you can see how two similar-looking flowers (or snakes) can produce all sorts of variants. This happens all the time in herpetoculture...people find an outstanding example to breed to one of their more normal animals, hoping that the babies will be an intermediate of the two, and some of the babies might look like the fancier parent on the first (F1) generation, but that's less common. Usually the first generation are intermiediates, and that flower photo is misleading, because even the F1 pinks have some variation, though not as dramatic as in the F2 generation.

Here's a horse coat color example too:

BTW, that Mustard Blonde on page 85 was produced by Michael Murphy in '06, and I think that same pair produced another clutch this year...you may want to contact him about those, because that pair is getting up there in years. Also, I don't know Mike's sales policies, but it's customary for price to be variable with each baby, based on appearance. Best!

DR
Suboc.com

Thanks for the reply, I thought the same thing but was hoping they may go through a color change as they mature. It is good to know the genes are there to produce mustards, I may keep them afterall.
Tad

>>Thanks for the reply, I thought the same thing but was hoping they may go through a color change as they mature. It is good to know the genes are there to produce mustards, I may keep them afterall.
>>Tad

Let me be clear. I do think that baby you have is a Mustard Blonde. My point is that there is variation between babies and certainly between lineages. The animal on pg. 85 is descended from Michael Price's first Blonde he found way back in '92. I do not think they are related to Craig's Mustards. Craig's was lighter and more buttery than the other lineage, in my collection, but no less yellow. In any case, those lineages certainly went along different trajectories through time.

They do go through a color change (in general, they become more yellow). Please know that the animal on page 85 is at least 6-8 months old. I don't think you got a sour deal here.