Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Greetings all,

As a complete novice to snake ownership, I decided to seek advice from some of you fine folk. I just bought a baby california kingsnake from the pet shop yesterday. I did plenty of research before I bought him, so I am well informed on the basics of his needs. But there are some things that I am unclear on, and I couldn't find my answers via other resources.

First and foremost, the pet shop supplied me with the cage he was already being housed in, which is quite small (see attached photo). The employee, being a multiple snake owner himself, assured me that this tank would suffice for several months before moving up to a 10 gallon tank. My snake is probably about 12"-14" right now, I'm not exactly sure at this moment. I haven't measured him yet.

I've read several different sources, most of which seem to contradict themselves by saying that a hatchling needs at least a 10 gallon from the getgo, but also saying that too big of a tank isn't good for it while it is young. So my question on that is, will the one he is currently in suffice, or should I make the switch to a 10 gal?

To go along with that, basically everywhere I have read says that having a heat gradient in the tank is of the utmost importance. However, the employee again assured me that while the snake is in the small cage, a heating device isn't necessary. But if the snake does need it, and he's fine in the smaller cage, how would I even fit one on it without heating the whole cage?

Similarly, I have the same concern about a hide hut for him. There's no way I could fit one in there with it being extremely cramped, and he seems to do just fine burying himself in the substrate.

Lastly, I'm unsure about the "rules" of handling him. He has been hand trained already while he was in the store, and he seems to have no problem letting me handle him. I've held him twice already since I brought him home.

Any advice on the above and otherwise would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks in advance!!

I personally don't care for the critter keeper type cages for snakes as it's way to easy for them to escape from.

If it were me I would go with a 10 gallon, under tank heater on one end. The water bowl you have is fine. A screen lid and clips to secure it in place. I prefer the wide metal clips that slide under the frame of the screen and clip down firmly over the plastic trim on the tank. I don't like the metal ones shaped kind of like a C. They just aren't strong enough to hold in a determined snake.

Bedding of your choice, paper towels, newspaper or aspen all work well. Since your new little guy likes to burrow in his aspen that would be my choice. It's also easy to spot clean.

Tight fitting hides on each end, warm and cool. For a sense of security snakes tend to prefer hides where they can feel contact all over their body. These can be as simple at toilet paper or paper towel tubes. Flatten them a little and fold one end over. I also like the black plastic trays meats come in as I can cut them down to an appropriate size. The black bottom part of carry out trays also work well. Are they attractive, no but they are practical and easily cleaned or disposed of and replaced. Many of the commercial hides are just too big. Cereal boxes, small tissue boxes etc all work too.

Consider some kind of moist hide for shedding cycle. I use a lot of the "disposible" plastic lunch containers, gladware, take a longs and the like. Cut a hole in the lid and fill with orchid fiber or sphagnum moss that has be dampened but not wet. Either of these can be found in the garden department of your local home improvement center.

Finally 2 thermometers one to lay on the bedding on each end to monitor your temp gradient. Don't bother with the stick on kind as they will not give accurate information.

This setup will work for you now and be good for at least the first year you have you new snake.

A rock or two might also be nice to assist when it comes time for shedding.

I'm sure others will be along shortly with more suggestions.

Real pretty little guy you have there and welcome to the addiction.
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BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
1.2 P. m. melanoleucus B/W N. J. Northern Pines
1.2 P. d. deppei Mexican Pines
2.2 P. l. lineaticollis Linis or Lined Pines
1.2 P. m. lodingi Black Pines
0.3 P. c. sayi Kingsville X Stillwater red bulls
1.1 Drymarchon melenurus Blacktail Cribo
1.2 D. corais Yellowtail Cribos
1.2 M. s. cheynei Jungle Carpet
2.6 L. p. pyromelana Arizona Mt. Kings
1.1 L. g. californiae B/W Cali kings
0.0.3 M. f. flagellum Eastern Coachwhips
1.2 G. m. bottegoi Western Plated lizards

Much obliged, sir. Yes, he is a good looking snake, that's one of the things that made me get him. Guy said they don't often have the stripe that he does.

As far as I can deduce, moving him to the 10 gal would be preferable. I keep the one he's in pretty secure, I usually put a weighted object on top of the clear lid for added security.

I don't have a lid for my 10 gal right now, so it'll be a few days before I'm able to go out to get all the things you mentioned, if I do decided to make the switch. Are you sure it's not too big for him at this point? I'm really nervous about scaring him, I want to be successful with raising him.

However, in addition to my original posted questions, can you or someone tell me what to do about heating/hides if I were to keep him in the critter keeper? As a hatchling, is it absolutely crucial to have a heat gradient?

Thanks again.

I would not keep him in there. Snakes need a heat gradiant, they are cold blooded. If you keep him in there for too long, it might stop eating and it won't do well. Get a ten gallon with either a heat pad or heat lamp on one end of the tank and make sure it can't escape. It's winter right now and an escaped snake might die if it's too cold where you live.

Big T gave you good advice! I will just add some of my spin on it. First I have seen snakes escape those critter keepers also. The small flip top is usually the culprit. You could easily get him a medium Sterilite tub with the locking clips built in, to give you time to get his more perminant set up ready. I keep yearlings in those and they work great as temperary solutions. For hides I use brown lunch bags or paper towel rolls as T already suggested. The temp gradient is not essential! They are a geart ideah and should be used if possible. I know some may differ with me bt I have never used it and I do very well with ot it. However I have my snakes in a room that hase warm temps so there's no guess work about temps for the most part. If you have him in an air conditioned room then you will want to privide some form of warmth. Heat lamps are not very good as they tend to dry the air too much and don't put the heat on the ground level where it's needed. An under tank heater will work. Make sure you get one that has a variable switch so you can adjust the temps. You can place the heat matt so only one end is resting on the heat. Be sure to monitor the temps on that end very close to the floor, and place the water on the cool end. The moist hide should also be on the cooler end imo, or maybe in the middle. I would also go for a 20 gal long so you will have a permanent home for him and not need to upgrade later. Try to get the metal screen tops as T said. The best ones are the ones that are fotted tightly and the screen slides forward. Avoid plastic tops at all costs. They are the #1 source for escaped snakes that I've seen over the years, other than forgetting to close the top, lol. By the way that is a very pretty Cal King! I'm guessing a high white striped. Good luck 1 The other thing I would add is don't feed him on the substrate. I use the paper bags for that and place the bag and snake back into the cage. You will probably want to watch him eat for a while so get a clear plastic container melt some holes with a soldering iron or hot ice pick. Handle him often but not after meals. Wait until the lump is gone. Be ready for some poop too, lol.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Jorge I have to agree with you on the use of temp gradients and heat lamps for the most part. I also keep my ambient temps in a range that for many it's not needed. I do have some exceptions, aren't there always exceptions? LOL. My coachwhips require an real hot spot in excess of 100*F and I can only achieve that with a heat lamp but I also have to monitor their humidity. My JCPs also go right under their heat lamps after eating for at least the first day after feeding.

Some of my snakes are quite satisfied with a UTH hot spot. My black pines, deppeis and linis all go straight for it after eating. Cooler species like my pyros and northern pines are just fine with ambient temps.
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BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
1.2 P. m. melanoleucus B/W N. J. Northern Pines
1.2 P. d. deppei Mexican Pines
2.2 P. l. lineaticollis Linis or Lined Pines
1.2 P. m. lodingi Black Pines
0.3 P. c. sayi Kingsville X Stillwater red bulls
1.1 Drymarchon melenurus Blacktail Cribo
1.2 D. corais Yellowtail Cribos
1.2 M. s. cheynei Jungle Carpet
2.6 L. p. pyromelana Arizona Mt. Kings
1.1 L. g. californiae B/W Cali kings
0.0.3 M. f. flagellum Eastern Coachwhips
1.2 G. m. bottegoi Western Plated lizards

There's always exceptions, lol. Yeah I keep mostly Kings and Corns so their care is pretty straight forward and basic. So you have Coach whips? Do you have those really red ones? I come across the Florida Coachwhips every now and then. Those guys get as big as the Indigos! But with a lot more attitude! I caught a full grown one and he was so impressive I decided to try to kep him but I had to let him go cause he was gonna destroy his face on the glass trying to bite me. i have found babies and they calm down after being held just a few minutes.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I have some captive hatch easterns from down by Sarasota. I'm hoping to add some texas reds and a buddy of mine is going to hook me up with some root beer colored texans this spring.
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BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
1.2 P. m. melanoleucus B/W N. J. Northern Pines
1.2 P. d. deppei Mexican Pines
2.2 P. l. lineaticollis Linis or Lined Pines
1.2 P. m. lodingi Black Pines
0.3 P. c. sayi Kingsville X Stillwater red bulls
1.1 Drymarchon melenurus Blacktail Cribo
1.2 D. corais Yellowtail Cribos
1.2 M. s. cheynei Jungle Carpet
2.6 L. p. pyromelana Arizona Mt. Kings
1.1 L. g. californiae B/W Cali kings
0.0.3 M. f. flagellum Eastern Coachwhips
1.2 G. m. bottegoi Western Plated lizards

A 15qt. Sterilite tub with a latching lid is another viable option for caging. You can find them at your local Target store.

http://www.sterilite.com/SelectProduct.html?id=603&ProductCategory=252§ion=1

The advantages of using a plastic tub is that they're cheap, lightweight, easy to clean, and hold heat/humidity in a little better than a 10-gallon tank if you're just using a UTH. Kings don't need high humidity, so you'll want to solder a lot of small holes in the tub for ventilation. Another reason i like tubs is that i can put 3 of them side-by-side on a 36" shelf and heat them with one strip of a thermostat regulated flexwatt, while taking up very little space. You may want to keep that in mind in case you find yourself addicted and wanting to get more snakes. Tubs are more convenient. As your king grows, you can move him up to a 32qt and 41qt tub.

The disadvantage is that they're not as nice to look at compared to a 10-gallon, but in my limited experience with 3 baby snakes, they spend almost all of their time inside their hides anyway. There's not much to watch. I only see them when i handle them, feed them, or clean their tub. When they're adults, i'll make the decision whether to put them in a display tank/cage depending on their personality and behavior.

I currently keep my brooksi king in a 15qt. tub and he's doing fine. He's around 18" and weighs 48g. You made a great choice in your kingsnake. They're awesome snakes. *Thumbs up*

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http://www.youtube.com/user/slitheringdead

Kings don't need CONSTANT high humidity, but you should give them that option if they desire it......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Do you mean when they're in shed? Yeah, then he can put in an extra water bowl or mist the tub or provide a humid hide. My tubs hold in A LOT of humidity even though it's winter here, so that's why i recommended soldering plenty of holes. The humidity in my room is around 20%, but yet it stays 60% in my tub. It was around 80% before i added more holes.
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http://www.youtube.com/user/slitheringdead

>>Do you mean when they're in shed? Yeah, then he can put in an extra water bowl or mist the tub or provide a humid hide. My tubs hold in A LOT of humidity even though it's winter here, so that's why i recommended soldering plenty of holes. The humidity in my room is around 20%, but yet it stays 60% in my tub. It was around 80% before i added more holes.

Nope...Provide it all the time....A box with damp sphagnum moss does the trick.....you will see a kingsnake spend ALOT of time in a moist hide.....When they do that it tells me they are seeking humidity/moisture.....

And there's nothing wrong with all the holes you suggest.

If you provide a kingsnake with dry, wet, cold, damp, hot, dark, light and combinations of each then you will see a snake that is thriving in captivity......

Just as you provide a thermal gradient there should be different humidity options as well.....You say your tub has 60% humidity now that you burned all the holes......I say you should have a spot with higher humidity than that available at all times and a dry spot available at all times....along with the other options I mentioned.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

I haven't thought about providing a humidity gradient, but yeah, it makes sense. I'll give it a try. I have all the other bases covered. Thanks.
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http://www.youtube.com/user/slitheringdead

>>I haven't thought about providing a humidity gradient, but yeah, it makes sense. I'll give it a try. I have all the other bases covered. Thanks.

Cool!
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

That Critter Keeper is so easy for a snake to pop the top off! I once used one for a feeding container for a snake and he popped the lid off but I found him right away.

A California king will get some size on him so I'd go with a 20 gallon tank, as he will outgrow a 10 gallon really fast. With a larger tank you can add interesting features.

My Cali king in one of his hides which consisted of granite rocks surrounding a Glad container of moist sphagnum moss, and some bark for more cover.

I had to fabricate a lid for this old 20 gallon fish tank and hold it on with bungees. He never escaped from this.

For his warm hide I put an UTH controlled by a thermostat on one end of the tank, and covered that with terracotta saucers to give him a tight hidy spot. I put the outdoor probe of an indoor-outdoor thermometer in that spot to accurately measure the temperature. They need a warm spot to digest their food in.

Alas, I temporarily moved him into a tub and he did escape out of that because the bungees were weak.
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Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

Additionally, could somebody please explain to me in detail the best way to go about feeding him?

I know to use pinkies while he is small, but I'm referring more to the actual feeding process. I'm slightly confused on the concept of moving him to a seperate container for feeding. I was thinking of using a shoebox, cutting a hole big enough to fit a pinky being held by long tweezers, and feeding him that way. Does anyone else have any suggestions on what a suitable common feeding tank could be? Does it need anything in it?

Also, how long after he takes the food should I wait to move him back to his regular tank? I know you aren't supposed to handle them after they eat, so how should I go about moving him back?

If someone could give me a step by step explanation of the whole process, that would be great. Thanks!

A lot depends on the snake. Is he eating only live pinks or frozen thawed F/T ? Does he need tease feeding if F/T? or will he just eat them?

I feed most of my snakes in a tub of some sort. Smaller ones like yours I like the take a long containers that are about 6" square and a little of 1" deep. I put in the food item, add the snake, snap on the top, set it back in the enclosure with the screen lid secured, come back later after they've eaten and cut them loose. Larger ones I use shoeboxes. The minimal handling once fed is not going to cause problems just don't handle excessively. Remove from feeding tub and put him in his enclosure. If you use my method all you need to is remove the top from the feed tub and let them get out on their own being sure to secure the screen lid.

Some prefer the brown paper lunch sack. Put in the food item, put in the snake, fold over the top, secure with a paper clip, back in enclosure etc.

If you have to tease feed I would suggest a shoebox and no lid. It gives you a little more room to work. Try to set the shoebox so you are not hovering over the snake. Grasp the pinky by the tail with forceps and put in front of his face. Sometimes you might have to tease the pinky along their body to get a feed reaction. From the looks of the size of your guy he seems like he has been eating fine. I would ask the dealer how he fed and follow his example.

Try at all costs to not feed on the substrate because if they accidently swallow any bedding it could lead to severe problems. I do have some, my Cribos who will go off feed if I handle them so I do have to feed in their enclosure. In this case I use a plastic shoebox and place the food items in there and put it in their enclosure. This way the feed tub is big and deep enough that my Cribos have to go into the tub to feed and I don't run the risk of them swallowing bedding. My male carpet is also fed in his enclosure. He always eats from his perches and never on the floor or bedding. I just place several food items in different locations on his branch perches and he crawls around finds them and eats.

That about covers feeding basics I think. If I missed anything I'm sure some of the others will take up my slack.

One last word of advice. If he will only take live try to get him switched over to fresh killed, F/K or F/T as soon as possible. Tricks for this require another thread. LOL Once a rodent reaches the stage where it is crawling around they have teeth and may chew on your snake, possibly causing scarring or even killing it with a well placed chomp. Typically, but not always, a well started baby king is an eating machine there are always exceptions though. It's after feeding that a temp gradient can become an essential as the snake may want to go to it's warmest spot to facilitate digestion. Too cool and it may not process the food fast enough and it may cause regurgitaion. If you have to use your critter keeper a human heating pad with about 25% of the enclosure just sitting on it will work for now. Watch your temps.

To address your hides for your critter keeper. The TP and PT tubes placed on each end would serve very well for now.

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BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
1.2 P. m. melanoleucus B/W N. J. Northern Pines
1.2 P. d. deppei Mexican Pines
2.2 P. l. lineaticollis Linis or Lined Pines
1.2 P. m. lodingi Black Pines
0.3 P. c. sayi Kingsville X Stillwater red bulls
1.1 Drymarchon melenurus Blacktail Cribo
1.2 D. corais Yellowtail Cribos
1.2 M. s. cheynei Jungle Carpet
2.6 L. p. pyromelana Arizona Mt. Kings
1.1 L. g. californiae B/W Cali kings
0.0.3 M. f. flagellum Eastern Coachwhips
1.2 G. m. bottegoi Western Plated lizards

Much obliged, my friend. You really seem to know your stuff here, you've been a lot of help thus far.

Apologies, I should've specified in that last post, he is eating frozen/thawed pinkies. The pet shop had him on a feeding schedule of once a week, every Friday. Seeing as I only got him 2 days ago, I have not needed/tried to feed him yet. This is also part of the reason I want to wait to move him into the 10 gal. I want to make sure he'll eat for me, because I know he probably won't if I put him in a new environment before feeding him. The employee said he had no problem getting the snake to eat from the forceps, so I'm hoping that stays true for me as well.

If you have anything to add to the above, feel free.

Oh, but while its on my mind. I have leftover items from my 10 gal when it housed hermit crabs. Among these are the driftwood log things you get at the pet store, and also some coral. The driftwood will be perfect for a hiding spot, and I would imagine it would be smart to clean it before introducing it to the snake (whose name is Ike, btw, I feel bad continuously referring to him as "the snake". lol.)

Would you happen to know if the coral is safe for him to crawl on/about? I'm afraid it might be too rough on him, though if safe, I imagine that would be an ideal shed-starter when it happens. As always, thanks in advance.

Usually young cal kings are aggressive feeders once established and some will eat regardless of what you do to them during feeding time!!! Top open, top closed, moved to another container, etc. If Ike is eating well, I dont think moving him to a new cage will affect him very much, if at all. It may take him a few days to explore and find his favorite spots, but I have had established feeding snakes take a meal right out of their shipping bags.

As far as the hermit crab decorations, I suggest scrubbing/soaking the driftwood down with a very mild bleach and water solution, rinsing very well, and air drying until completely dry. I would not use the coral as it could be too rough on the snake.

That is quite an attractive cal king by the way. Good luck with Ike. He should give you many years of happiness.

is to clamp a 5 1/2 inch reflector dome onto a table and aim it at the end of the plastic container. Use a low watt bulb. This is great for a temporary setup and leaves a cool end.

I have used those plastic cages with success. The newer ones have a large catch on each end that snakes have not been able to open.

The flip-top (clear thingy) is a problem. I drill two little holes - one on each side - and used a piece of wire to secure each to the perforated top part. That has stopped escapes for me.
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Mark