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I'm just getting back into the hobby after ten years and I need some help. Is it still elaphe or has it changed? Thanks in advance!

>>I'm just getting back into the hobby after ten years and I need some help. Is it still elaphe or has it changed? Thanks in advance!

some still stand by elaphe
some have gone to pantherophis
probably most pantherophis

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Corn snakes and rat snakes...No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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It's hard for me to get Elaphe out of my head1 Why didn't they let us take a vote on that name change, lol!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Ya know Jorge,....it's funny. After 43 years of knowing them as Elaphe g. guttata(1967) from all the snake books I constantly read as a kid, they will still ALWAYS be just that to me. I get all scrambled-up and have to stop and think real hard about all the new silly names they keep wanting to apply to everything now days..LOL!.....same with N.A.ratsnakes too....all screwed-up man!

All about continually re-inventing the wheel I guess..LOL!

It sort of feels like me calling my brother "Melvin" after knowing him as Steve all my life!..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

to naming them according to what was originally used to name the nominate form when first classified. Pantherophis is a very old genera name for ratsnakes. Rember, even subocs and Senticolis were placed in Elaphe at one time. The data evolving on the NA and other rats may have forced them to be placed in the older nomenclature to avoid classification confusion LOL!!

Older farts like us will probably always refer to them as Elaphe, just like we have a hard time giving up the Chondro designation for green tree pythons and still used "goini" when it was believed to be an integrade. The hobby ALWAYS seems to lag behind taxonomy. Doug nailed it well. Like calling your brother or another family member a different name because one day their parents said they are reclassifying them LOL!!

LOL!!,.....right on the money bro!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

It has to do with "Old World" rat snakes being separated from "New World" ones. Most people who've experienced a Japanese Rat Snake or Russian Rat Snake would agree that they're quite different than American versions - even from a non-scientific view point.

Since the Old World species had the "Elaphe" name first, they got to keep it, while the American Rat Snakes had to change. I agree that's it's pretty crazy that "Bufo" is no longer the genus for American Toads and "Rana" is no longer the genus for American "true frogs." I reckon it won't be long until all the scientific names that I gre up with for American herps will be changed.

Tim

Third Eye

Thanks to everyone who responded! When did this change? I guess I'm one of those "old farts". Does the scientific community agree on pantherophis?

Does the scientific community agree on Pantherophis?
- Well, mostly. Since the New World Rat Snakes are more closely related to the genera Lampropeltis, Bogertophis, Pituophis, etc. (Collectively called the tribe Lampropeltini) than they are to the Eurasian Rat Snakes, they cannot be called Elaphe because that would blurr their phylogenetic relationships. So, while nearly all in the scientific communtiy agree on this point, what exactly the former North American members of Elaphe should be called has been the source of debate. The genus Pantherophis is generally used because for them because it has nomenclatural priority according to the rules of the ICZN. That said, some biochemical studies have suggested that certain species of Pantherophis are more closely related to Pituophis than they are to other Pantherophis. These results have been called amiguous (at best) by some scientists, and other studies have disputed such evidence.

Genetic research by a team of Russian biologists in 2002 confirmed a deep split between the Eurasian and North American species. As a side note, the Eurasian Elaphe have also been split into a number of other genera to better reflect their relationships to one another.

Hope this helps
-Cole

Very good info Cole. I am pretty sure the split and use of Pantherophis again happened about two years ago if not mistaken. As Cole and Tim before stated, the old Pantherophis got dusted off to differentiate the NA rats from the euroasians. I didnt know the rules, or which group got classified first under what, but I knew it was done based on what was classified first.

The formal use of Pantherophis took the herpetological communtity by storm about 10 years ago. Hobbyist publications took a number of years to catch up (and some still haven't... Ha ha ha!), but the split was so well supported that there really wasn't/isn't a reasonable alternative. I've got a .pdf copy of the original paper, if you're interested.

-Cole

Thanks Cole. Yeah, cant say I stay on top of taxonomy that well. As Dr. McCoy/Bones would say on StarTrek.. "Dammit Jim I'm a geologist, not a biologist" LOL!! It doesnt surprise me the herpetoculture pubs are far behind herpetological pubs on the change.