Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The Snow Corn from the post below that was advertised on KS classifieds to be an Opal Motley but clearly wasn't, died tonight. He was thin and wouldn't eat. But I figured being a corn he'd start eating soon enough and I could eventually get enough weight on him to give him away as a pet, as he didn't fit into my breeding plans. I didn't need a Snow. I needed an Opal Motley. I have a friend at work who was looking into getting a pet snake for his son. I was going to give the corn to him once his weight was better.

I bought a baby tricolor from the same guy at the same time. Was supposed to be 3 months old and established feeder but was size of a one day old hatchling, thin, and wouldn't eat. I emailed the seller twice about the hog being too small to be a 3 month old established feeder and the fact he was refusing all manor of food being offered. The seller did not respond to my emails. The hog died. I emailed him that he died. No response.

Now tonight I hear strange sound coming from the Corn's enclosure. Opened it up to find him writhing in agony. I was horrified. There was nothing I could do. I grabbed my camera and took a video, thinking I can't get to the vets Christmas weekend but could email him the video in hopes I could get suggestions for treatment or somehow get him medicine if he needed to be put on something before I could get him in for a full exam. He died as I was taking the video. It was so horrible. I'm still shaking and this was an hour ago.

The corn was thin, I was upset with the seller for underfeeding him. But figured being a corn I could get his weight up as soon as he started to eat good, which he never did. There is no way he could have gotten sick enough to die in just the 3 weeks I had him from anything I did. I kept him identical to the way I have kept all my corns for years now without having a problem with any of them. There is also no way he could have starved to death in 3 weeks if he was properly fed prior to my receiving him. I've had corns fast for longer than 3 weeks with no ill effects. I did offer him food, left f/t mice in his tub overnight, removed them the next morning. He never touched them.

I emailed the seller after the corn died tonight and said I need all of my money back. I will not accept any replacement snakes from his facility. I can't go through the drama of watching any more skinny snakes die.

Getting my money back will somewhat help, but it won't take away the emotional trauma of the last 3 weeks watching the baby hog die and now the corn too. I'm single, no kids, my snakes are my life. Pathetic as that may be. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who's snakes mean more to them than anything else in their lives. I loved those snakes. Even though I wasn't planning on keeping the corn once I realized it was not an Opal Motley, I was excited to be able to give him to my friend for his son, knowing his son would adore him (would have been his first snake) and I was quite fond of the snake, he was a sweet snake. Very calm. Now in hindsight maybe his calmness was a symptom of poor health and not just a mellow personality.

Sorry to ramble. I'm looking at a total sleepless night followed by a very tired day at work. Followed by anxiously checking my email all weekend long waiting for the seller to reply and advise if he's returning my money. If not, I don't exactly know what to do. I paid with my Paypal Credit Card using PayPal. I guess I start there. Never had to do something like this so am unsure exactly what to do. Hopefully he'll refund the money and I won't have to escalate the situation.

Again, sorry for the ramble. I'm seriously just wigging out right now and sick to my stomach over this whole thing.

.

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Slytherin Serpents

Have you been hugged by your snake today?

Ball Pythons
1.1 Normals het Caramel (Edward & Bella)
0.1 Normal 66% ph Caramel (Rosalie)
0.1 Caramel (Bellatrix)
1.0 Honey Bee (Aragog)
0.1 Hypo Pastel (Nagini)
0.1 Spider 66% ph Hypo(Nymphadora)
1.1 Mojaves (Lucius & Renesme)
0.1 Pastel Lesser (Narcissa)
0.1 Pinstripe (Arwen)
1.0 Pewter (Salazar)
0.1 Bumble Bee (Alice)
0.1 Lemonblast (Luna)
1.0 Bell Pastel (Jasper)
0.1 African Dinker (Esme)
0.1 Normal (Madame Olympe Maxime)
0.1 Het Pied
0.2 Normal Babies 66% ph Caramel
1.1 Pastel "Dinker" Babies (Snape & Madame Hooch)

Corns
1.1 Normals het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo (Romeo & Juliet)
0.1 Blizzard het Diffused (Tumnus)
1.0 Blizzards poss het Anery, Hypo, Diffused
0.1 Anery Lavender het Amel (Lucy)
0.1 Plasma poss het Hypo (Victoria)
1.0 Plasma poss het Albino
1.0 Hypo Plasma
0.1 Opal (Jewel)
0.1 Amel Motley
0.1 Diffused poss het Anery
0.1 Diffused poss het Anery, Albino, Charcoal, Hypo
0.1 Lavender Motley poss het diffused
1.0 Charcoal Ghost poss het Anery, Albino, Diffused
0.1 Charcoal poss het Albino, Anery, Diffused, Hypo
0.1 Fire poss het Anery, Charcoal, Hypo (LeeLoo)
0.1 Normal het Albino, Lavender, Anery, Charcoal, poss het Diffused
1.0 Albino het Lavender, Anery, Charcoal, poss het Diffused

Hogs
1.1 Tri Color (Arthur & Molly)

Snakes are your passion. There's no need to feel pathetic about that. At least you have something in your life that you know you love. Many people out there are still searching.

Given your experience in snake keeping, it's obvious that the seller sold you unhealthy or sick snakes. The fact that he sent you a snow instead of an opal motley could be an additional indicator that something is wrong with his operation. It sounds like you've tried many times in good faith to work with him to resolve the problem and now you're getting no response at all from him.

I don't have any experience with Paypal, but that would be the first place to start. Ask them if there's anything they can do to help recover your money. In addition to filing a report with Paypal, i would make a post on Fauna BOI to alert other people about this seller and make sure to include copies of your correspondence as evidence.

I understand that this was very traumatic for you and it's not just about the money. However, you must take comfort in the fact that you did the best that you could for the snakes and it wasn't your fault that they were in that predicament. I'm sure they appreciated the love and care that you gave to them. There was nothing else that you have done better. I hope you can recover your money and get back to where you should have been in the first place - with two healthy snakes.
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http://www.youtube.com/user/slitheringdead

Definately make a report on Fauna BOI! That site is highly regarded and viewed and will let others know of his poor buisness practices. As for the snakes dying, sorry you had to deal with that, but you'll be much wiser in the future. I hope you didn't pay too much for the tri-hog? I know they can be very expensive. Paypal may be your best course to get a refund, but it may depend on what kind of guarantee was agreed to before the purchase. Not really sure, it's worth a try though.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

>>that really sucks, but don't feel like you did anything wrong....YOU DID NOT...You are right in expecting every cent of your money back but, as I'm sure you know, the chances of getting it back are slim to none.
It might be a violation of the TOS, might not, but I would really like to know who this person is....I'd hate to go through the same crap because I didn't know this person was a thief.
I'd also hate to see anyone else, on this forum or others, go through the same thing. We see an add, buy a snake, only to find out we got shafted, too.
I was all for giving him the benefit of the doubt at the beginning but it's obvious what this person is all about. You should have already received replacement snakes or your money by now.
sorry for your loss and I truly hope you get restitution.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes...No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

I agree Jimmy, I wish Lyn would post this person on the forum. This is a bad deal and I personally want to know who this person is. Lyn, send me an email if you are more comfortable.

However, after most folks who visit this forum and have been in the hobby for a few years should know who to seek for quality species and morphs, and to beware of deals "too good to be true". My advice would have been to contact one of the very reputable breeders who visit this forum and negotiate the animal desired. I wish more and more people would do business with you good guys and gals who dispense great info and advice on these forums, than pick some random fly by night operation to do business with because of price.

.
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

For sure Jimmy!,.....

Lyn, I would give him one final email, and tell him that you want full refund within five(5) business days of this email. Then after that time, you wallpaper this all over the BOI and every other place you could possibly think of.

See, I basically wanted to give the benefit earlier as well as to a possible screw-up, but really had a "knew better" feeling about this right from the very start. Now it is quite obvious that he knew that snow corn was definitely NOT the snake you ordered, AND that the tiny tricolor Hognose NEVER ate one freakin meal in his so-called "care" either!. He just decided to throw a couple "not-doing-well" snakes in a box and that would be the end of it, and decide never to answer any emails afterwards hoping you would disappear.

I hope you get full restitution from this thing soon Lyn, because if he was smart, refunding your full amount would be much cheaper than loosing countless other people's future business. I mean, it certainly wasn't like it was $3,000 bucks or anything. Even though I certainly hope THAT loosing lots of business happens too if he doesn't fully refund you .....and I mean ASAP!!!

Sometimes lessons are very tough and hard learned, but I think you did learn a valuable lesson with this guy.

best regards, ~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Oh hey Draybar! I'm the guy from Boston that you put the Bairdi on hold for =) I just thought i'd introduce my forum screenname to you. Let's hope for a few warm days in January!
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http://www.youtube.com/user/slitheringdead

>>Oh hey Draybar! I'm the guy from Boston that you put the Bairdi on hold for =) I just thought i'd introduce my forum screenname to you. Let's hope for a few warm days in January!
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>>http://www.youtube.com/user/slitheringdead

Hey, how's it going?
I will look for you on the forums. Yep, hopefully we'll have some warm enough days in early Jan.
She'll be fat and sassy for you.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes...No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

I have come in contact with some real scumbags in this hobby as anyone is bound to eventually. It is frustrating enough when the issue is money which it typically is. It takes it to a whole new level when someone is crooked at the expense of the health of an animal. Please get his name out there so we can weed him out of our hobby. Sorry for your loss.

Sorry this happened to you.Sounds like you did all you could to save them.Like some others have suggested,I'd give him a short time to refund all your money and if he doesn't,take his butt to the Fauna BOI! Take care! Jeff

He emailed me back, said was out of town and only just now got my emails. He is willing to replace the snakes but made no offer to refund any money.

So as of now I basically have $298 credit with him plus free shipping for anything he has that I want, he is willing to attempt to get anything I specifically want, preferably an opal motley male and tricolor male, but if he can't get that or if I change my mind and decide something else I can tell him and he'll work to get it.

Problem is we both agree shipping in January and February is pretty much out as we don't want to risk shipping in below freezing weather (I live in NY). So the replacement snakes would not be shipped until March or April at the earliest which means dragging this out several more months.

I have mixed feelings. I'd rather have my money back and use it to purchase snakes from reputable breeders. But on the other hand, at least he's not just hanging me out to dry and is offering something which is better than nothing.

If I ask him to find a specific snake in spring, and he ships me the snake quickly after he gets it (he goes to shows so likely would pick it up at a show) then it would hopefully be in ok shape as long as whomever he buys it from has taken good care of it.

His shipping method is good. The snakes did arrive very well packed with a heat pack. So I do trust his packing and shipping methods. I just don't want anything that's spent any long time in his facility.

On the tricolor hog I do want another but really want to buy direct from a reputable breeder as that's a more sensitive kind of snake to begin with. So I will probably take him up on his offer of choosing a different replacement for that one.

I really need an Opal Motley male but that is a very specific combo so will be harder for him to find. Especially as I want one a couple years old, not a hatchling. The add was for an 08 Opal Motley male so I don't feel a hatchling would be an acceptable replacement as I'd lose 2-3 breeding seasons.

I'll make one last bid for a refund, or perhaps try to set up some kind of deadline for replacements, like if he can't find suitable replacements by May then I would get a refund then or something. My head is spinning on exactly how to deal with this still. I am grateful he has not terminated communication and is at least trying to work with me which is better than being left totally out in the cold.

Thank you for everyone's kind words. I'm trying to email all of you individually as posting the sellers name would violate TOS so I won't do that here.
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Slytherin Serpents

Have you been hugged by your snake today?

Ball Pythons
1.1 Normals het Caramel (Edward & Bella)
0.1 Normal 66% ph Caramel (Rosalie)
0.1 Caramel (Bellatrix)
1.0 Honey Bee (Aragog)
0.1 Hypo Pastel (Nagini)
0.1 Spider 66% ph Hypo(Nymphadora)
1.1 Mojaves (Lucius & Renesme)
0.1 Pastel Lesser (Narcissa)
0.1 Pinstripe (Arwen)
1.0 Pewter (Salazar)
0.1 Bumble Bee (Alice)
0.1 Lemonblast (Luna)
1.0 Bell Pastel (Jasper)
0.1 African Dinker (Esme)
0.1 Normal (Madame Olympe Maxime)
0.1 Het Pied
0.2 Normal Babies 66% ph Caramel
1.1 Pastel "Dinker" Babies (Snape & Madame Hooch)

Corns
1.1 Normals het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo (Romeo & Juliet)
0.1 Blizzard het Diffused (Tumnus)
1.0 Blizzards poss het Anery, Hypo, Diffused
0.1 Anery Lavender het Amel (Lucy)
0.1 Plasma poss het Hypo (Victoria)
1.0 Plasma poss het Albino
1.0 Hypo Plasma
0.1 Opal (Jewel)
0.1 Amel Motley
0.1 Diffused poss het Anery
0.1 Diffused poss het Anery, Albino, Charcoal, Hypo
0.1 Lavender Motley poss het diffused
1.0 Charcoal Ghost poss het Anery, Albino, Diffused
0.1 Charcoal poss het Albino, Anery, Diffused, Hypo
0.1 Fire poss het Anery, Charcoal, Hypo (LeeLoo)
0.1 Normal het Albino, Lavender, Anery, Charcoal, poss het Diffused
1.0 Albino het Lavender, Anery, Charcoal, poss het Diffused

Hogs
1.1 Tri Color (Arthur & Molly)

What if you find an 06 or 07 male opal motley next week for sale from a reputable person? You need to get your money back NOW IMO!!! No replacements. What good is it going to do you if he sends you more doggie snakes that die within weeks again? Based on the email you sent me, this guys KNOWS about animal condition regardless if he works with those species or not. This is unacceptable IMO. Tell him you thought about it and want full refund. If you feel generous, cut him a break and tell him you will eat the shipping cost, but absolutely want the cash refund for the animals themselves. I would NOT trust him to find healthy animals for you. With his knowledge, this should have NEVER happened IMO!!

I agree, get your money back now. I believe the guy is coming forward because he's afraid of getting exposed in BOI.
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1.2 Chihuahua's
0.1 Cockatiel
1.1 Normal BCI Colombian Boa
1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
1.0 Woma Python
1.0 Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Leucistic Texas Rat Snake
1.1 Hypo Everglades Rat Snake
0.1 Mexican Black King snake
1.0 Sunglow Corn Snake
1.0 Sunglow Motley Corn Snake
1.0 Coral Snow Corn Snake
1.0 Bearded Dragon
1.0 Blue Tongue Skink
0.2 Leopard Gecko's
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula
0.0.2 Emporer Scorpion
0.0.1 Ghost Knife
Assorted Tropical Fish

Agreed, i would push for a full refund and give your business to someone else more deserving.

To me, there are generally 2 main components to a good breeder or seller:

1. The person has expert knowledge in the behavior and care of their snakes and also executes on that knowledge by maintaining and selling healthy vibrant snakes.
2. The person provides honest, prompt, and fair customer service practices during the pre- and post-sales stages.

He failed on the above 2 components. I would not want any more business from him.

To look at it another way, let's reverse roles. If you were the seller, would you feel obligated to offer a full refund? I know that if i sold the wrong animal and on top of that, sick/unhealthy animals even if it were an honest mistake, i would feel obligated to correct the situation by offering a full refund or a store credit (with added bonuses, maybe a 25% discount or something like that)

Again, you're not a rookie. You know how to take care of these animals and it was not a case of an inexperienced buyer who didn't provide the correct husbandry and causing the animal to die. The evidence is quite clear and he should at least offer you a full refund.

Also, you're not a rookie like me. You have kept many and a variety of snakes in your collection for a long time. You know what you're doing
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http://www.youtube.com/user/slitheringdead

and DITTO AGAIN!!!!

simple as THAT!!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com