Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.

Click here for Dragon Serpents
Click for ZooMed

And so it begins

bigtman Dec 22, 2010 11:31 PM

Hello my name is Tom and I am about to begin my journey into the land of kingsnakes. I just placed my orders. and I will be getting a few by the end of this year. And a few will be comming in 2011. (I am on the list) I just wanted to say Hi. Here is what I will be getting.

From BHB
Flame brooks M/F
Hypo Brooks M
Anery Brooks F
Hypo Honduran Milk M
Anery Honduran Milk F

From Dmong (I am on the list for)
High Yellow Brooks M/F
Honduran Milks M/F (hets?)
once again hello to all
Tom Swihart

Replies (28)

Jlassiter Dec 22, 2010 11:58 PM

Another Floridana and Hondo jumper.....

Welcome to the addiction.......
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

bigtman Dec 23, 2010 12:03 AM

Thanks!
I kind of jumped in with both feet LOL
Tom

DMong Dec 23, 2010 02:32 PM

Very cool Tom! You certainly cannot go wrong with those bud!

Welcome aboard!

~Doug

......and on, and on, and on..LOL!........
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Bigtattoo Dec 23, 2010 04:28 PM

Geez Doug do you have any pretty snakes? What a motley looking group you have there. You should send all of those to me for Cribo food. I'd be doing you a big favor. J/K

Really I'm going to have to wipe the drool off of my keyboard before it shorts out.
-----
BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
1.2 P. m. melanoleucus B/W N. J. Northern Pines
1.2 P. d. deppei Mexican Pines
2.2 P. l. lineaticollis Linis or Lined Pines
1.2 P. m. lodingi Black Pines
0.3 P. c. sayi Kingsville X Stillwater red bulls
1.1 Drymarchon melenurus Blacktail Cribo
1.2 D. corais Yellowtail Cribos
1.2 M. s. cheynei Jungle Carpet
2.6 L. p. pyromelana Arizona Mt. Kings
1.1 L. g. californiae B/W Cali kings
0.0.3 M. f. flagellum Eastern Coachwhips
1.2 G. m. bottegoi Western Plated lizards

DMong Dec 23, 2010 05:03 PM

LOL!!,...thanks for the kind words Big T!

Yes, just a few of the "ugly ducklings" here..

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

KevinM Dec 23, 2010 10:17 PM

Man, saw that amel hondo, jumped back, and kissed myself HEYYY!!!

DMong Dec 24, 2010 12:08 AM

.
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Jlassiter Dec 23, 2010 05:23 PM

Doug,
What is that last Triangulum pictured?
Is it an Arcifera?
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

DMong Dec 23, 2010 06:11 PM

That is a SMOKIN textbook nelsoni I used to have in the early 90's. Scott Ballard and Shannon Brown remember that killer specimen, and their eyes popped out of their heads when they first saw this guy..LOL!. He had the ultra-wide arching black rings, high RBR count, huge white snout, broken incomplete first black ring under the throat and the whole nine yards!. Every single feature he had was simply text-book stuff meristic-wise. He looks identical in every respect to the holotype in K. Williams ~Systematics~ from the Acambaro/Guanajuato,Mexico area.

I owned him just prior to the appearence of the amel nelsoni, which of course in turn caused everyone that didn't have any genuine nelsoni(which were MOST folks actually) to cross just about all the sinaloae in the market into them to produce more $2,000 dollar amels since there were FAR more Sinaloans out there than any nelsoni.

GOSH I wish I still had him!. I had a really nice female for him too back then from Gary Sipperly, but she wasn't quite as nice as him though. He was just an un-freakin real specimen!

Anyway, good eye John!, because he was such a nice specimen, people today are not even used to seeing one like that in the hobby. The vast majority in the hobby are mediocre intermediate crosses of both.

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Jlassiter Dec 23, 2010 07:18 PM

That IS a smokin nelsoni.......It looks wild caught!
I thought it was arcifera because of the predominant black arches.......But it looks as though it keys out to nelsoni......
Cool snake.....
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

DMong Dec 24, 2010 12:26 AM

Thanks John!....yes, he was certainly top-notch all the way. Funny thing was I got him from "Mr. Cornsnake" (Rich Zuchowski) of all people..LOL! when he was delving into other milks too at that time, and I "think" it originated from some that Applegate imports he had at the time. Rich just had the one specimen on his table at a small local Ft. Lauderdale show, and I knew the second I saw it that it was an outstanding example, so I scarfed it up immediately. I swear I have never seen any of that caliber ever since either.

Funny thing is at the time, Rich really didn't know just how nice a specimen that snake actually was either. I talked to him about it decades later, and he asked me to tell him exactly why I thought it was so nice. So I told him in great detail about all the key meristic features that made that snake such a great specimen.

Soon afterwards, he focused solely on the corns, and the rest is history.

later, ~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Jlassiter Dec 24, 2010 01:10 AM

Great find Doug....
I even wish you still had it.....It is/was an awesome Nelsoni!
I've been talking with Scott Ballard over the last few days and I am getting the Latin American Triangulum itch.....LOL

Maybe next year I will expand the herp room for some Milksnakes......No hondos only Hondurensis and others.......
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

DMong Dec 24, 2010 01:28 AM

Yeah John, Scott sure does have some SUPER-NICE locality Latin American stuff in his collection. You simply couldn't have made a better choice to score outstanding locality Latin milks from, that is a fact. I have been pondering some of his N.W. Nicaraguan hondurensis too. And his polyzona, abnorma, nelsoni, etc...can't be beat either.

Just a great guy to know in my book!. Look forward to seeing what you acquire from him whenever you do.

Congrats!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

a153fish Dec 24, 2010 06:24 AM

Did I misss something? What's the difference?
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

KevinM Dec 24, 2010 08:33 AM

Hey Jorge, I think they are eluding to the fact many hondurans in the pet trade arent pure lineage these days and have other SA milk subpecies mixed in here and there. Same as with the nelsoni/sinaloan.

a153fish Dec 25, 2010 12:09 PM

I understand that many have been tainted. But I didn't realize they carried the nomenclature of Hondo? I just use Hondo to be a shortened version of Honduran milk, other wise known as Hondurensis. Isn't Hunduras closed to exportation?
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Jlassiter Dec 25, 2010 06:50 PM

>>I understand that many have been tainted. But I didn't realize they carried the nomenclature of Hondo? I just use Hondo to be a shortened version of Honduran milk, other wise known as Hondurensis. Isn't Hunduras closed to exportation?
>>-----

See...you made the connection between Hondo to Honduran to Hondurensis which is INCORRECT.....lol

Most of what we see in the hobby cannot be called Hondurensis...They can probably be equally called Stuarti or Polyzona if that were everyone's way of thinking.......

And I believe Central American animals now fall under the Lacey Act too.
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

KevinM Dec 26, 2010 12:02 AM

I do the same Jorge with use of Hondo as a shortened version of Honduran. Still, the general term Hondo or even Honduran apparently represents to the true blue milk guys the hobby snakes available today that are apparently tainted in lineage to some degree. I dont see this tainted lineage myself personally as much as what I remember say sinaloans looking like, but apparently it exists.

Jlassiter Dec 26, 2010 05:17 PM

>>I do the same Jorge with use of Hondo as a shortened version of Honduran. Still, the general term Hondo or even Honduran apparently represents to the true blue milk guys the hobby snakes available today that are apparently tainted in lineage to some degree. I dont see this tainted lineage myself personally as much as what I remember say sinaloans looking like, but apparently it exists.

It is much harder to distinguish a Stuarti from a Hondurensis from a Polyzona.......Folks that work with them all the time can see the differences easily.....I for one, cannot as I don't work with them all the time like I do Mexicana.
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Jlassiter Dec 24, 2010 12:40 PM

>>Did I misss something? What's the difference?

LOL...You sure did.....

There is a difference between a Hobby Hondo and a pure L. t. hondurensis........

Some of the mutant genes seen today in Hondos came from other Central American triangulum.......Even some of the big breeders of these call them Hondos instead of hondurensis.......They are just hobby snakes and many folks know it and accept them as cool looking triangulum.....I have nothing against them...I actually had some at one time or another.......I'd just rather work with some pure lines now...
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

DMong Dec 24, 2010 12:46 PM

.
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

a153fish Dec 23, 2010 08:12 PM

That is an exceptional Nelsons, Doug! That's a great picture of a Mex Black too! I used to always have trouble getting the details in the faces because of the all black snake. That one could hang on a wall.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

DMong Dec 24, 2010 12:36 AM

Thanks Jorge,...man, he sure was bud!, and I wish the heck I still had that thing!..*sigh*. How many times have we all said THAT about animals we no longer have anymore??. Certainly won't be the last time either..LOL!

Yeah, I know what you mean about getting the face details in an all black snake. The light has to be angled just so to even see the eyes or else it all just looks solid black and featureless..LOL!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Bigtattoo Dec 24, 2010 04:09 AM

from the Acambaro/Guanajuato,Mexico area.

I lived about 45 minutes from there, a little town San Miguel de Allende. Spent 4 years there with lots of herping/rock hounding from around my town to Celaya, Guanajuato, Queretaro as far south as San Luis Potosi for fire agates and up to Monterrey for Topaz. Besides gem stones I was also on the lookout for reptiles. In 4 years of flipping rocks, tin and old decaying cactus I only found 1 pygmy rattler at the old silver mines at Pozos.

I come back here and see more snakes from those areas than I ever could find. Spoke to some campasinos and mostly they all agreed the only good snake is a dead snake.

That being said, there was a town about 1 1/2 hours north, name slips my mind getting old sucks, that you could always find camposinos selling animals alongside the road. Harris hawks, numerous owls, coatis all sorts of stuff. We spoke to some of them and told them we were interested in snakes could they catch us some. As agreed we went back a week later. Oh yea! Bunches of snakes, all dead, skinned and stretched out on branches. We could not get them to comprehend we wanted them alive, they just couldn't fathom the idea why someone would want live snakes.

Did find lots of high quality gems though.
-----
BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
1.2 P. m. melanoleucus B/W N. J. Northern Pines
1.2 P. d. deppei Mexican Pines
2.2 P. l. lineaticollis Linis or Lined Pines
1.2 P. m. lodingi Black Pines
0.3 P. c. sayi Kingsville X Stillwater red bulls
1.1 Drymarchon melenurus Blacktail Cribo
1.2 D. corais Yellowtail Cribos
1.2 M. s. cheynei Jungle Carpet
2.6 L. p. pyromelana Arizona Mt. Kings
1.1 L. g. californiae B/W Cali kings
0.0.3 M. f. flagellum Eastern Coachwhips
1.2 G. m. bottegoi Western Plated lizards

a153fish Dec 24, 2010 06:30 AM

Cool story1 You find Gems there, and the natives are selling ciotes! Life is so strange sometimes.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Bigtattoo Dec 24, 2010 10:38 AM

It took me some time to get used to living down there but grew to love Mexico. I wouldn't mind retiring there someday.
-----
BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
1.2 P. m. melanoleucus B/W N. J. Northern Pines
1.2 P. d. deppei Mexican Pines
2.2 P. l. lineaticollis Linis or Lined Pines
1.2 P. m. lodingi Black Pines
0.3 P. c. sayi Kingsville X Stillwater red bulls
1.1 Drymarchon melenurus Blacktail Cribo
1.2 D. corais Yellowtail Cribos
1.2 M. s. cheynei Jungle Carpet
2.6 L. p. pyromelana Arizona Mt. Kings
1.1 L. g. californiae B/W Cali kings
0.0.3 M. f. flagellum Eastern Coachwhips
1.2 G. m. bottegoi Western Plated lizards

bigtman Dec 24, 2010 04:33 AM

Thanks Doug and then you have to put up those pics an tease me. I just can't wait til next season.
Tom

DMong Dec 24, 2010 02:44 PM

LOL!!,....yeah, now tease, and later on...please!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Site Tools