Reptile & Amphibian Forums

meaning by visually checking (tail, spurs etc), probe or pop the vents manually?

once you get it down, nothing else matters.
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Jason Dowell

Check out the video for a little more info.

I need to re-shoot that video to provide more info, but, a tad more info. Once you get to the cloaca, press your fingers together a little - actually a tad more than you think they could tolerate and slide down towards the tip of the tail. You FEEL two little "pops" inside and that's the tip of the hemipenes moving under the pressure of your finger. It can be fairly far down.

It's best to learn this method with a known male.

jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

100% Palpate method...
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Richard Ceniceros

This is what I do as well..
Just would like to add, once you feel the 2 bb like balls, you are SURE it is a male.. But sometimes when you dont feel them, it doesnt always mean its female. It is always best to double and triple check the 'females' to make sure you didnt miss something. But so far I been 100% correct with this method. Very handy and easy to do.

>>meaning by visually checking (tail, spurs etc), probe or pop the vents manually?

why not probe? It seems that the others are educated guessing and probing is knowing. Even the video...says practice on a 'known' male. Just a wonder. I am a bit of a self sufficient type so learned to probe years ago. Gotta say, I have people ask me to check out snakes for them all the time (the vets referrals aren't helping) and no one wants to learn to do it themselves.
Also, have gotten snakes 'sexed' by others that were not what they were said to be, 'cause they were popped or palpated or tail sexed or spur sexed or some other guess.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

Probing is fine, if you have the technique down. I used to do it, years ago. Someone new to probing can hurt the animal though. It's also very intrusive, like popping. Probing can also cause infections, from what I understand. Once one is familiar with the palpating technique, the chance of being wrong is very slim.

Also, Jonathan suggested learning with a known male, so a beginner can learn exactly what they're feeling for. Once you experience a male, it becomes very obvious. There's no mistaking the difference in feel.

I suppose that there are male boas, like male anything, that are a bit smaller than average, and might be confused with a female, but that happens with females too. I've probed animals that had a depth of 5 to 6 scales. Is that a small male or a deep female?

My point is, with any technique, there is a margin of error. Why not choose the least intrusive/stressful method?
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Jason Dowell

I've had more Boas mis-sexed by probing than anything else. I had hired a guy about 10 years ago to probe my new litter. I was selling a BP the same week to a vets asst. , and she showed me the "popping " method -- turn out many of the probed babies were incorrectly sexed. a couple years later , I was new to the palpate method , and had a sub-adult stubbed tail male . Brought it to the vet , they probed it as a female , I disagreed , and then they tried a 2nd time to verify that it was indeed a male . Apparently the male can squeeze against the probe, causing it to seem like a female. On the flip-side, I've also bought a few Boas "probed " as one sex, but turned out to be the other. Palpate, and popping are the only two that I trust. I believe that they're more reliable.
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Snake room janitor

I would never probe a baby boa... If u want to probe wait til they get a little size on them first.

Palpate is the way to go on newborns...
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Richard Ceniceros

I forgot to add... Probing a baby boa can easily injure them.
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Richard Ceniceros

Anyone I've helped with palpating, I've told them the same thing. Start with a known male. It takes some people a few times to feel it. Like was said though, once they do, it becomes very quick and easy. As far as which is best-Humans are involved in every method, so there will be errors made. You will even make some yourself. We all do! I've palpated a LOT of mis-sexed snakes at shows. When they say female and you feel the "bb" it doesn't matter what they're trying to tell you. It's a male! Breaking out a probe set or popping someones animal as soon as it's handed to you is a little akward. Palpating usually doesn't even get noticed.

I probe all my baby boas a few weeks after birth. I palpate every boa before I ship them out.
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Greg Bennett - Western Hognose Morphs
520.Hognose (520.464.6673) - www.bennettreptiles.com

I usually pop babies after their first shed, but only because newborns that are kept in a humid environment sometimes have sticky tails. I do recommend palpating for anyone that is unfamiliar with either technique though. I palpate and pop before selling and have found that both ways are totally accurate if done properly.

Probes for Boas 3' and up.

I can definitely see where you are coming from that probing can do harm....one of the reasons I really cringe at popping. To me if you know what you are doing, are patient, probe both sides to reduce error and CLEAN your probes between...that is a lot of the problems removed. I hate seeing a snake probed at a show.....where have those probes been?

Too, can you palpate smaller snakes? I never thought about it. Most of the time I get colubrids that are small....pencil and smaller sized. I would think it would be like reading braille.
I may learn palpating...I hopefully have a litter of BC coming this year and will get a chance to learn.

The worst thing I have found with probing is a snake that someone was rough with and one side is popped through and seems male and the other female. And there is always the darn snakes that are in between for depth. I have a candoia that probes 7 scales....gotta call him a short male as he is 7 years old and only two feet long. Probes funny though. Had a full five foot long heavy, tiny spurred male Ball that was passed around as an unbreedable female for five years....til my friend probed him. He fathered litters very successfully after being put with a lady. So, no matter what there is the human error and common sense.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

I've heard that it's close to impossible to palpate colubrid babies, though have never actually tried it.
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Jason Dowell

Never tried colubrid babies, I have done it on baby chondros though since they're not supposed to be probed. I would think you'd have to have pretty sensitive fingers to palpate a hatchling colubrid though. On the candoia, they should be like Dumerils though-males spurs, females no spurs. Double check your probing with that to double check. However, this is also not 100%. I have one male Dumerils that lost both spurs after courting to the point of developing an infection and losing both spurs. He still breeds successfully, just no spurs. I think I was able to palpate my baby candoia, but honestly I can't recall for sure. I know they were so tiny I didn't automatically think male just because I couldn't see spurs. The spurs I did find were tough. Nothing wrong with being experienced with every method to double check everything. I have the toughest time palpating short tailed species...balls and dumerils for example because the usual space between where a female typically drops off, tends to go right into the "bb" feel and it's somewhat easy to miss. I also have a male argentine boa that is not um, well "tucked" (don't really hang do they?? LOL) and you can barely feel that "bb" feeling.

I palpate mine. Much less invasive and stressful then popping or probing.
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Sublime Boa Constrictor