Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Seems like the market for these things evaporated overnight. Its not like theres a big supply out there. That being the case, is it simply a case of demand being down? Did evryone that purchased "nuclear pomegranates" realize that they payed 5x too much for their snakes, and now are sour on subocs. I could understand if there were tons of classifieds out there for them, but theres only a couple. I sold all my alternas, so people are still buying snakes, but despite very low prices, my subocs are hardly moving. Maybe its the fact that the market dried up that people are staying away, who knows?

I just took a look 9 out of 66 ads are for subocs of one form or another. That doesn't include the last pair Shannon is trying to sell which would make 10 ads. That's 15% and the next closest in number of ads are Texas & Lucys at 7 total.

I'd have to say right now there are a lot of subocs looking for homes. Be patient, stick to your prices and work on your marketing.
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BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
1.2 P. m. melanoleucus B/W N. J. Northern Pines
1.2 P. d. deppei Mexican Pines
2.2 P. l. lineaticollis Linis or Lined Pines
1.2 P. m. lodingi Black Pines
0.3 P. c. sayi Kingsville X Stillwater red bulls
1.1 Drymarchon melenurus Blacktail Cribo
1.2 D. corais Yellowtail Cribos
1.2 M. s. cheynei Jungle Carpet
2.6 L. p. pyromelana Arizona Mt. Kings
1.1 L. g. californiae B/W Cali kings
0.0.3 M. f. flagellum Eastern Coachwhips
1.2 G. m. bottegoi Western Plated lizards

I guess what I meant was there arent many ads for what im selling. There are 3 including mine for blonde and axanthic blondes. Thanks though for pointing out how many ads there are. In the process of counting all the ads did it occur to you that Shannon is selling wildcaught normals. So is ocotillo. Greg is selling triple hets and snows, or some other morphs. I haven't looked in the last few days, ut I thought that myself and Todd were the only ones selling hatchling blondes and axanthics that weren't het for anything.

Yes I'm quite aware that Shannon's ad as well as others are for W/C, some are for blondes, some axanthics, multi hets etc. You asked a question that seemed to be about the suboc market in general to which I did my best to reply. Sorry if I only pointed out what was already obvious to you when my intention was to be helpful.

To your specific question concerning your morphs you point out the roughly 1/3 of the suboc ads are for your specific morphs. So there is still a lot of competition.

Hopefully this isn't too obvious to you. This is a bad time of year for herp sales. With a narrow niche market like herps and the competition for the Xmas dollar and many herpers not willing to risk shipping in this weather, the economy in a slump, unemployment at record highs and so on and so on.

Add to this you're in an even narrower niche market with your subocs. Competition from Kings, Milks, Balls and other boids for herper dollars. Rat snakes in general with the possible exception of the corns which even that market has crashed, are just not as popular with herpers.

That being said subocs and possibly some of those nice metallic bairds are the only rats on my wish list.

I was trying to be encouraging in stating to be patient and hold your prices. Tax season is coming and hopefully you will find a market at your price.

Once again sorry if I'm only pointing out what is already obvious to you and didn't realize that in posting your question that it was rhetorical and didn't require a response.

Merry Christmas and best of luck with your sales.
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BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
1.2 P. m. melanoleucus B/W N. J. Northern Pines
1.2 P. d. deppei Mexican Pines
2.2 P. l. lineaticollis Linis or Lined Pines
1.2 P. m. lodingi Black Pines
0.3 P. c. sayi Kingsville X Stillwater red bulls
1.1 Drymarchon melenurus Blacktail Cribo
1.2 D. corais Yellowtail Cribos
1.2 M. s. cheynei Jungle Carpet
2.6 L. p. pyromelana Arizona Mt. Kings
1.1 L. g. californiae B/W Cali kings
0.0.3 M. f. flagellum Eastern Coachwhips
1.2 G. m. bottegoi Western Plated lizards

>>Seems like the market for these things evaporated overnight. Its not like theres a big supply out there. That being the case, is it simply a case of demand being down? Did evryone that purchased "nuclear pomegranates" realize that they payed 5x too much for their snakes, and now are sour on subocs. I could understand if there were tons of classifieds out there for them, but theres only a couple. I sold all my alternas, so people are still buying snakes, but despite very low prices, my subocs are hardly moving. Maybe its the fact that the market dried up that people are staying away, who knows?

I don't know if it really speaks to your observation but I think ratsnakes are a harder sell to newbies than some snakes and that subocs have a more fiesty rep. So maybe fewer newcomers trying them. Though I will say I have seen some I like. I have never owned one....hopefully I will live long enough to get some. Other projects to work on first.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

Sub-ocs have a "feisty rep"?? Are you kidding me??? Just how docile does a snake have to be for you?

It's rare but I saw a really mean wild one(adult) on the River Rd. that reared, hissed and struck just like a bullsnake. I have also bred Christmas Mtns. and Black Gap locality lines. The Christmas' hatchlings were usually docile but the Gap's were usually very nervous and hi-strung. Most all other localities of wc subocs I've seen were very docile regardless of age. I guess it depends on who you talk to and what bloodlines they have worked with. Overall I too have always thought they had a reputation as a docile species and was suprised by the few mean ones I saw.
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www.hcu-tx.org/

>>Sub-ocs have a "feisty rep"?? Are you kidding me??? Just how docile does a snake have to be for you?

I didn't say for ME I said for the average newbie. I personally have plenty of experience w various snakes...calm and handleable to take your face off. I havent' tried subocs yet. The working word being "yet".

As for pet market...you are competing with comatose BPs, dog tame corns (and even those are too 'squirmy' for some) Work with me. I have worked pet stores for 25 yrs I am vaguely familiar with what the average newbie wants. I can't sell yellow, everglades or other simple NA rats. Just saying.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

Sonya, I think the retail market for everything sellable is going down due to our economic collapse, snakes included. I don't think for a minute that their demeaner plays a factor, though. In over 40 years of keeping reptiles & an equal number of sub-ocs in my present collection, I can't think of many more mellow & relaxed snakes than these bug-eyes. I've never even had one strike at me.
Gotta love 'em!!
Dan

Man, every snake market has dried up to a degree. Even the corn morph market is depressed, which has historcially been much better than the more specialized market for species like alterna and subocs.

Dusty Rhoads selling off his collection, especially his breeder adults. I expect the market to drop even more next season when the babies start coming.
Don't really care. Been breeding subocs since the mid-70's. You gotta love that face, personality, and those big beautiful eyes.
Maybe those wild caught normals will yield something interesting.

Mike