Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So, I have not bought anything new in over a year. Well, I am starting to get that itch again. Just crusing through the adds, I remember its December and PE has Black Throats. So, now I am in that thinking again. Water Monitor, Black Throat or Argus. I looked at these three before I got my ackies and was glad I went with the ackies because it reminded me how much lizards eat and work they are. So, now I am in that phase again. Must also look ahead a couple years and figure out where I am putting a 10 ft cage, ahahahahhaa. Guess I need to figure that out first. Thoughts on the three.
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0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger (Dash)
1.0 Amel Retic (Mahola)RIP Buddy.
0.1 Ball Python (Cyeanne)
0.1 Red Tail (Memphis)
1.0 Coral Sun Glow Boa (Rodman)
0.1 Blood Python (Danica)
1.0 Green Ananconda (Prefontain)
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa (Bing Bong)
1.0 Ivory Ball Python (Hansel)
0.1 Bumble Bee Ball Python (Sissy)
0.0.2 Yellow Ackies (Ludmilla and Ivan Drago)

If you have the space, my vote is salvator. I love them!

Whats the difference between Asian and Sumatran. I assume location, anything else. And why are Mertons so hard to find.
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0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger (Dash)
1.0 Amel Retic (Mahola)RIP Buddy.
0.1 Ball Python (Cyeanne)
0.1 Red Tail (Memphis)
1.0 Coral Sun Glow Boa (Rodman)
0.1 Blood Python (Danica)
1.0 Green Ananconda (Prefontain)
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa (Bing Bong)
1.0 Ivory Ball Python (Hansel)
0.1 Bumble Bee Ball Python (Sissy)
0.0.2 Yellow Ackies (Ludmilla and Ivan Drago)

Asian and sumatran are the same a lot of times. Don't get wrapped up in what dealers are calling them. There are several different subspecies found in Asia, obviously. Sumatrans are the most commonly available. They get around 7ft for males and 5-6ft for females.
Mertens' are a completely different speceies all together. They are from Australia, which doesn't allow export of their native fauna. That's why they are hard to find. There are a handful of guys working with them, but they are pricy. They stay a lot smaller though.
I would do a lot research before you get one. They're a lot of work and need a lot of space.

I think any of those would be a fine choice for someone wanting larger monitors. I think they would need the final large enclosure sooner rather then later. They grow quick under the husbandry methods people on this forum are into.

Also how did your ackies turn out did they get more comfortable around you or are they still really shy? Just wondering.

One final thing don't buy crap... If you can find someone that has quality healthy nice colored monitors go with them. Since you will have to work with the monitors for 20 to 30 years they should be alert and healthy. They don't have to be CB to fit that description... ethically most people probably prefer that though.

Thanks, ya it is a big commitment and one I am planning for.

Ackies, they are still pretty shy, now its the smaller one who is skidish when I walk in and the bigger one on ocasion does not care if I am there. I still get a kick out of watching them eat. The bigger one will take a mouse off the tongs from me and the smaller one, will not. I think I drive them crazy when I have to go in and move things around and add more dirt, then they have to dig all over again. hahahahhaa, and you can see the little one waits for the big one to do all the work. They are interesting and glad I started off with them, just to remind me how much work they are, and if I go bigger I can add to that work load.
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0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger (Dash)
1.0 Amel Retic (Mahola)RIP Buddy.
0.1 Ball Python (Cyeanne)
0.1 Red Tail (Memphis)
1.0 Coral Sun Glow Boa (Rodman)
0.1 Blood Python (Danica)
1.0 Green Ananconda (Prefontain)
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa (Bing Bong)
1.0 Ivory Ball Python (Hansel)
0.1 Bumble Bee Ball Python (Sissy)
0.0.2 Yellow Ackies (Ludmilla and Ivan Drago)

I think you will be fine with a monster if you can handle the little size ones. Its just a matter of putting it into a larger scale.... much larger scale.

If shyness bothers you, you may want to go with an Argus or a Blackthroat. Waters are much more nervous and shy as babies. They will grow out of it eventually, but it may be a year before it will bask in front of you or eat off tongs. Argus, on the other hand, are usually more outgoing. Similar setup as ackies, just on a larger scale.

Some thoughts:

When I started with monitors, I wanted something that would be big. After dealing with male arguses, I soon found out that big was a major hassle. The bigger it is, the harder everything is for their care - just changing a water dish big enough for a big lizard is a chore. Also, past a certain size, the lizard will go where it wants to rather than where you want it to. And bigger lizards have the potential of being more destructive than little lizards - I've had arguses rip through hardware cloth and Niles dig through drywall. Of the three species you mentioned, arguses stay the smallest (especially if they are female) - so I would recommend an argus for that reason alone. Some of the smaller white-throats might also work. You could also look into flavies and Gould's monitors, which are sort of like smaller, calmer, sweeter tempered, and easier to manage versions of argus monitors. But generally, I would recommend getting some experience with a mid-sized monitor before jumping into caring for a giant like a salvator water monitor or one of the big races of blackthroat.

The one salvator water monitor I had was both very sweet tempered and very smart for a lizard. They are wonderful pets - but huge. I mean gigantic. You mentioned a 10 foot cage - this is likely to be inadequate. This is the sort of critter that would require a whole spare bedroom.

I have had many argus monitors, and they are certainly a lot of fun. They are active, pissy, in-your-face, full of attitude, always eager for food, tough as nails, but fortunately reluctant to bite in self defense (but don't get this fool you - they go into feeding frenzies when they think food is around and you definitely need to watch your fingers then). They don't back down, which lets you interact with them quite a bit. They get into more trouble than any other monitor I've kept, because they are always getting into everything and exploring. A ten foot cage should be suitable for a big male - the females stay a lot smaller and might get by with a six or eight foot cage.

I have never kept blackthroats. Those which my friends have had were typically good natured giants.

Good luck, and I hope this helps,

Luke

Thanks, you mention some monitors I have looked into and waited and waited and waited to come available. One being the White Throat and the other was the Flavi. I would love one of those and maybe what I revert back to. Funny thing, I saw some guy in Vegas holding an Argus out on the street for people to take pics of. It had to have some Flavi in it. The Argus does intregiue me and if I could ever find 100% Flavi or Cape Banded White Throat again I would jump on it. I am in no rush and everytime I am ready to buy a water, I just keep reading the care sheets and looking at what I will do in a year with it for a cage. I have a huge basement so I am not so concerned, but maybe your right Med is the next step to go.
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0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger (Dash)
1.0 Amel Retic (Mahola)RIP Buddy.
0.1 Ball Python (Cyeanne)
0.1 Red Tail (Memphis)
1.0 Coral Sun Glow Boa (Rodman)
0.1 Blood Python (Danica)
1.0 Green Ananconda (Prefontain)
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa (Bing Bong)
1.0 Ivory Ball Python (Hansel)
0.1 Bumble Bee Ball Python (Sissy)
0.0.2 Yellow Ackies (Ludmilla and Ivan Drago)

I'd be more hesitant about that green anaconda then any of the monitor species mentioned

Crutchfield has some whitethroats available, or he did a week ago anyway. Argus and Flavi's look similar, but they require different setups. Argus and Whitethroats both like setups similar to what your used to with ackies, on a larger scale. That would be an easier transition. As Luke mentioned though, if you do have a room size enclosure, use FRP, to waterproof it. It will also protect the sheet rock from claws. Both, the Argus and Whitethroats are readily available, there is also a guy who breeds Argus on here from time to time. His name is Justin. I think he sells his Argus for about the same price as wild caught.

Hahahaha, the Green Conda, is not to bad. He has had a few moments that have thrown me back and I have no trust in that guy what so ever, but like I said he is not that bad, I can take him out and hold him. He has only lashed out a few times when I tried to pull him out of his cage one day. He does have a very strong feeding response though.

I think I have talked with the guy that sells his Argus on here a few times about getting one. Do you know if Toms are wild caught or CBB. I know I was talking with someone else who bred them and was going to get one from him but pulled back to wait for some ackies. I really do like the look of the Argus over the white and black throats and I hear so many different things about them. First off I hear they are crazy and not one that you can tame. Then I see some guy out in Vegas holding his and pictures of people holding them and say they are fine. Not that I want it to be a dog but I would like a little forgiveness if I do take it out. Thats what I am still trying to guage the learning and reacting.
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0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger (Dash)
1.0 Amel Retic (Mahola)RIP Buddy.
0.1 Ball Python (Cyeanne)
0.1 Red Tail (Memphis)
1.0 Coral Sun Glow Boa (Rodman)
0.1 Blood Python (Danica)
1.0 Green Ananconda (Prefontain)
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa (Bing Bong)
1.0 Ivory Ball Python (Hansel)
0.1 Bumble Bee Ball Python (Sissy)
0.0.2 Yellow Ackies (Ludmilla and Ivan Drago)

I love Ackies, love Blackthroats, love the right Whitethroats. Peachthroats too. Roughnecks are cool as well.

But Argus, Flavis and Goulds? Ugh, I can't stand any of them. For a mid size monitor (and that is stretching it for most Argus) they would seem ideal, but it is a very different lizard experience from any of the above listed monitors. I will never get another in that family again. Nope.

Same goes for the Melinus Yellow monitors.

I would suggest spending time with some in person before you leap in head first.
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robyn@proexotics.com

ShipYourReptiles.com
Pro Exotics Reptiles

Robyn what are your experiences with Argus and Melinus you did not like? Moe

Ya, why so down on the Argus.

Also, why is everyone so down on Savannahs, is it because they are so common?
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0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger (Dash)
1.0 Amel Retic (Mahola)RIP Buddy.
0.1 Ball Python (Cyeanne)
0.1 Red Tail (Memphis)
1.0 Coral Sun Glow Boa (Rodman)
0.1 Blood Python (Danica)
1.0 Green Ananconda (Prefontain)
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa (Bing Bong)
1.0 Ivory Ball Python (Hansel)
0.1 Bumble Bee Ball Python (Sissy)
0.0.2 Yellow Ackies (Ludmilla and Ivan Drago)

i like argus
there cool

tjsreptiles

>> I really do like the look of the Argus over the white and
>> black throats and I hear so many different things about
>> them. First off I hear they are crazy and not one that
>> you can tame. Then I see some guy out in Vegas holding
>> his and pictures of people holding them and say they are
>> fine.

It is hard to explain, but both are right. Arguses have an intensity that I have not encountered elsewhere with monitors - perhaps the closest analogue would be the personality of many of the mustelids - ferrets, badgers, wolverines, weasels. Their high activity and curiosity makes them interesting. However, they always tend to be jumpy and suspicious. They are reluctant to bite in self defense, but if you approach them they will puff up, hiss, perhaps scamper away or smack you with their tail. Once you have one in hand, it may try to wriggle out, or it may just sit there, glaring (and likely hissing). You can definitely hold them - I have done so, and it is not like they are going to try to take your fingers off or anything. They just don't appreciate it much.

Note that very highly stressed arguses will try to bite in self defense - don't rely on them not biting - but those that are used to you usually will not bite when you are reaching for them or handling them. Even if they will not bite, though, their intensity and jumpiness can be unnerving.

I find the best way to work with them is to motivate them with food. Hold a mouse on the end of a long pair of tongs and lead it where you want it to go. If I don't have food available, I just grab them by the base of the tail and quickly put it where I need it to be, in order to minimize the stress on the animal. Not that arguses are very susceptible to stress - they are very robust both physically and psychologically.

And one of the really cool things about arguses is the way they stand up on their hind legs to look around. You don't get that nearly so much with other monitors.

Luke

You mentioned you would love to have a white-throat and would jump on it in an instant. Tom does have some advertised, and I believe he has cb as well. If I had the funds I would get the baby cb in an instant. But then again I would also get about 20 other animals if I had the funds too. Such is life I suppose. Anyways, best of luck with your purchase and new acquirement.

Thanks, I just saw that he had one. Anyone ever got anything from him? Also, I am wondering if I need to take the little guy to the vet once I get him for shots and deworming, or does he do that.
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0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger (Dash)
1.0 Amel Retic (Mahola)RIP Buddy.
0.1 Ball Python (Cyeanne)
0.1 Red Tail (Memphis)
1.0 Coral Sun Glow Boa (Rodman)
0.1 Blood Python (Danica)
1.0 Green Ananconda (Prefontain)
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa (Bing Bong)
1.0 Ivory Ball Python (Hansel)
0.1 Bumble Bee Ball Python (Sissy)
0.0.2 Yellow Ackies (Ludmilla and Ivan Drago)

I've purchased from him before and it was a smooth transaction. Great communication and the animal was exactly as Tom described. He shipped me a monitor and told me the condition it was in before I got it. He completely undersold the animal. It was better than he described and I would buy again from him. That said animals are very good at hiding ailments, so it never hurts to take one to a vet. I wouldn't if it was in good health when it arrives because there is no need if you have good husbandry. If you've kept ackies and there healthy, I would imagine you know what your doing. If it doesn't appear to be sick I would just heat him up and start feeding. I always quarentine animals I bring in for 45 days. Just in case something may be wrong. Then I set it up with the rest of my collection.

No need to worm and I've never heard of getting shots for WTs. I work with the South African WTs, they get big as well so don't think they are much smaller. IMHO, they are outstanding varanids but don't skimp on caging or husbandry.
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