Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have this beautiful Spider that I got at Daytona the year before last. She's a head turned in more ways than one. She lists her head to the left from time to time and stargazes. I know this is common in Spiders but my question is this:

Is it more likely to produce offspring with this problem if the parent has it or is it just a crapshoot? Is it wrong to breed a Spider that you know has this problem or is it just a normal symptom of Spiders?

If I just have to keep her as a pet and not breed her I have no problem with that. I love her anyway. TIA

The "Head Wobble" in spiders is accepted and by no means, should it stop you from breeding! I'm sure there are people trying to "outbreed" that symptom, but to date, I don't know of anyone that has or think they have!

I have the nicest spider I've ever been able to find. The original owner spent big bucks on him back in the day. No head hobble. They are out there but it seems you really gotta look. I believe it's genetic and would not purchase a spider that had any of those problems. I'll even go so far as to avoid any offspring with a spider in their family tree so to speak. I've seen offspring whom aren't spiders show the same head tilt, star gazing crap as the spiders do. I'd prefer to keep those gene's out of my stock.
-----
John Light

lol to almost everything you stated. Every spider has the ability to head wobble some get it some dont. It doesnt matter what the parents are, and it doesnt matter if the parents are wobblers. They will still throw wobblers and non-wobblers. It is a trait linked to the spider, not a gene that is passed on or that could be bred out. Also other animals dont have a possibility of wobble because "they had a spider in their family tree" that is absurd. The wobble is directly tied to the spiders. If you have a clutch from a spider to anything else, everything in the clutch that isn't spider or spider combo will be fine. There is no way for a nonspider to get the wobble from a spider lol. If it isn't a spider and it is wobbling it might have IBD or some other kind of serious problem. NOT BECAUSE OF THE SPIDER!! lol
Will

Explain how the wobbling is linked to the Spider morph, please?

Are you saying that it is a separate gene for wobbling that is linked with a Spider morph?

Or are you saying that the wobble is part of the gene... essentially, whatever mutation causes Spider pattern also causes virtigo or loss of stationary control?
-----
Lincoln, NE
0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly
2.1 Normals, 1.0 Thayeri, 0.1 Thayeri X Alterna, 0.1 Whitesided P. catenifer sayi, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

It isn't a gene they carry. That would imply that other offspring would also be able to get the gene or that you would be able to breed the gene out. Instead it is a trait of all spiders. Some wobble and corkscrew really bad, while others never do it. It is variable but essentially "whatever mutation causes Spider pattern also causes vertigo or loss of stationary control" is kind of what I was saying. I wouldnt call it vertigo per sey but it is without a doubt a neurological issue they carry. I have bred two spiders tat corkscrew bad together and ended up with a whole clutch of non wobblers. I have bred spiders before that I have never witnessed one wobble out of and still got wobblers. Some show it and some don't. Some show it worse then others, but I do believe all spiders have the ability to wobble some just dont. I do have lots of non wobblers and I have a few wobblers. Some of the worse ones I have hatched out actually grew out of it. The only way to avoid wobbling spiders is to not get into spiders, or get one that doesnt wobble and never breed it.
Will

Laugh all you want but I'm afraid this is first hand experience my friend. I'm not talking about a few clutches either. I have friends with the animals I'm talking about. The "wobble spider gene" can infact be past onto other morphs or normals. I can't tell you how many times I've seen it. To each their own but let the facts be facts. Yes the spiders can cause others in the clutch to get the bad "wobble gene". Mine as well tell it like it is...

-----
John Light

First hand experience? I bet I have 100 times more first hand experience, and you are really just talking out the side of your mouth. What you say is impossible, and completely absurd. Notice how I am the only one humoring what you are saying? Get your facts straight before you post on a public forum.
Will

np my facts will continue to be the same and there is nothing incorrect about what I stated. I guess we can just walk seperate ways on this one as there is no point in argueing.
-----
John Light

.

-----
"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

thats kinda creepy looking lol

Mine has a wobble but it's almost negligible.
-----
"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

My spider male no woble...my hold backs from him both have a pretty hard woble.do it!!

Let's get this perfectly clear; ALL spiders wobble.
There are keepers out there who want you to believe that their spider does not wobble; they are liars.
Whether the spider has a very slight shudder when feeding, or does full-on loop-de-loops, they ALL have it.
-----
www.strictlyballs.ca

I've had my original spider for 7 years and never noticed even the slightest wobble, when feeding or otherwise! That being said, I couldn't guarantee that any offspring wouldn't have it based on the history of the morph!

This is a values, morals and ethics question that only you can answer.
Presumably, being an intelligent, knowledgeable consumer, you bought your spider knowing full well that they had ALL spiders wobble to some degree or another.
That said, whether or nto you decide to breed it knowing full well that ALL of it's offspring will also have this neurological disorder is completely up to you.
Your personal values, morals and ethics come into play heavily here.
Let it also be noted that this disorder does VERY little to dissuade other breeders from producing and selling spiders on this very forum and also did NOTHING to dissuade the original breeder from breeding them non-stop for years knowing that this disorder would be passed down to ALL of the offspring.
-----
www.strictlyballs.ca

Well my question was would the babies of a Spider like mine be more likely to list or stargaze? Most of the replies seem to indicate that it doesn't matter if the parent wobbles, list, etc. It's inherent to the Spider gene and seems to be random. If I do decide to breed her, I won't lie to the prospective buyers about the babies.

>>This is a values, morals and ethics question that only you can answer.
>>Presumably, being an intelligent, knowledgeable consumer, you bought your spider knowing full well that they had ALL spiders wobble to some degree or another.
>>That said, whether or nto you decide to breed it knowing full well that ALL of it's offspring will also have this neurological disorder is completely up to you.
>>Your personal values, morals and ethics come into play heavily here.
>>Let it also be noted that this disorder does VERY little to dissuade other breeders from producing and selling spiders on this very forum and also did NOTHING to dissuade the original breeder from breeding them non-stop for years knowing that this disorder would be passed down to ALL of the offspring.
>>-----
>>www.strictlyballs.ca

....seems like it doesn't matter if the parent wobbles or not as far as the offspring are concerned.

If you ask yourself the question, the answer is easy, don't breed it. There is no reason to put more animals that have problems in this overpopulated world.

Why breed a snake that have genetics problem ?

Nerd should have put that snake in the freezer at the beginning. I understand why he didn't. Cause he wanted to make money and thought that he could get that problem out. The first one could also not be the worst and some could think that would come from beeing wild.

Still he is the cause of all this.

People should stop breeding them and move on.
-----
love this world, don't hate it.

im not seeing where the problem is.....they twist and turn and stare....so what. they eat just fine, their quality of life is in no way compromised. it only affects animals that are visually a spider so its expected. it IS becoming less prevalent. i see no reason to not breed an animal because its locomotion isnt normal when all else is fine....i just dont see a problem
adam jeffery

-----
" a.k.a. farfrumugen "
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

Especially since it's not like it affects their survival in the wild...since they're captive. They don't need to evade predators...and like you said, they eat just fine...so...
-----
"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

I'm not one that cares much for spiders, but I will say, IMHO, they are the hardiest morph of Ball Python I've ever had. They eat, grow, and breed like no other morph.
-----
www.brandonosbornereptiles.com

I have to disagree with you also. The spider mutation has an awesome look and do thrive well in captivity. Without spiders we wouldn't have some of the best combos out there. The wobble even gives these snakes a unique quirky personality and doesn't seem to affect their quality of life. Chris