Reptile & Amphibian Forums

In my quest, I have heard mixed things, one is to get a Sav they are great and then others say no. Just curious why such mixed reviews.
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0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger (Dash)
1.0 Amel Retic (Mahola)RIP Buddy.
0.1 Ball Python (Cyeanne)
0.1 Red Tail (Memphis)
1.0 Coral Sun Glow Boa (Rodman)
0.1 Blood Python (Danica)
1.0 Green Ananconda (Prefontain)
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa (Bing Bong)
1.0 Ivory Ball Python (Hansel)
0.1 Bumble Bee Ball Python (Sissy)
0.0.2 Yellow Ackies (Ludmilla and Ivan Drago)

Depends on the lizard, person, situation, etc. There are too many variables to determine for sure an animal is right for you if it is/isn't right for another person. Either it's right for you and your situation or it's not. Savs are unfortunately imported by the crate which makes them cheap and creates lots of horror stories. They're also not terribly colorful and do attain a decent size. I personally think they're great lizards. I think their size is just right and have found them to be very interesting to watch when provided with the right setup.

I think you'll find mixed reviews for any monitor larger than an ackie. Bigger lizards just bring more potential issues to the table.

Bill

Specifically, because 90 percent of keepers don't know how to keep them properly. Most savanna's lives are cut short by improper diet. A lot of keepers. even some on here, will argue that rodents are a good staple for savannas. This isn't true. Savannas are more specialized when it comes to diet. In the wild the eat almost exclusively, insects and snails. The high fat diet of rodents usually spells doom for adult savannas. They are great animals if you know this. You can have a savanna that will live 5 maybe 7 years, but that has more to do with how tough monitors are than it does rodents being acceptable. Look at it like this, you could eat big mac's all the time, and live to be fairly old. You would eventually suffer from the affects of a poor diet and may even have your life cut short.
With any monitors, I do my best to find out what they eat in the wild and try to duplicate that. Use "expected" sense, you obviously would have a hard time finding the exact species of insects and snails that they would eat in the wild, but there are a lot of alternatives.(crickets, roaches, canned snails, etc..)
Just do your research, there have been a couple of books written on savannahs recently that are more up to date. I think they are great. I just prefer, larger lizards. I have the space, and the wisdom to listen to others and take advice from experienced keepers and to adapt my practices to what my lizards need. As long as you do that you'll do well. Just get what you have interest in, and the space and money for. I always adapt to my animals, I never try to make them fit into my life. A lot has changed since I first started kepping.
You seem to have experience with reptiles, just go in with an open mind and get what you like and learn as much as you can about it.

Not directly related to the OP's question but a sav question. What is the going thought on feeding apple snails to savs? I've never done it and I realize that they would likely feed on terrestrial snails in their native habitat but I always wondered if apple snails would be suitable.

Bill

Thanks that makes sense. Also, kinda what I was thinking about size to step up to or should I just wait for the BT. Both seem to have the same personalities. I could be wrong. Interesting about the rats. I figured with their size thats their diet, but I do also know that a lot of people use them as disposals and they get fat. Thanks again.
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0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger (Dash)
1.0 Amel Retic (Mahola)RIP Buddy.
0.1 Ball Python (Cyeanne)
0.1 Red Tail (Memphis)
1.0 Coral Sun Glow Boa (Rodman)
0.1 Blood Python (Danica)
1.0 Green Ananconda (Prefontain)
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa (Bing Bong)
1.0 Ivory Ball Python (Hansel)
0.1 Bumble Bee Ball Python (Sissy)
0.0.2 Yellow Ackies (Ludmilla and Ivan Drago)

I honestly couldn't answer that question for sure. I don't know what the differences are with apple snails and the ones that are found in their native range. If they are land snails then I would assume they would be ok. I'm not a snail expert. Of course I'm not an expert on anything When I had my Sav's I fed them a lot on insects and mixed in some eggs, and very little raw meat on occasion. The two I had were very fit, compared to what you typically see. I guess more like what healthy wild sav's look like. I have seen little bowling balls that people call savanna's and will swear that's just normal. They are one of my favorites. I don't think you'll go wrong with them if you put in the effort.

hmmmmmmmmmmm I am afraid I will be very offensive with my post. First, why do you need others to tell you what you like.

Second, if you like Savs, and you are capable of housing them, then what is stopping you from getting them.

Third, you are human, and as such, you should already know and understand that people MUST dissagree with eachother, as that is normal human behavior.

its kinda why there are fords and chevs, and toyotas and nissans. and a different brand gas station on each corner. Or fourteen stores all selling the same products make in China. Its what we do. We want to be alike, yet we want to be different. So you will always recieve the information you recieved.

So if you like them, Then do it. Because these animals are really living breathing creatures, if you have any doubts, what so ever, do not do it. Cheers

Hahahahhaa Thanks FR. No offense taken and because of some of your posts really make me think about things hard. Like a lizard that travels miles a day, you get where I am going.

I just like to hear what people who have had things that I have not say and when I see something I like and hear a lot of downs on it, just want to make sure its not something I am getting into that is not good for me or the lizard. What I am gathering is I think most people are down on them because they are common, and the horror stories, but this actually may be my perfect monitor. Gets bigger and can have a pretty good temperment.

Is it a good idea to take the babies to a vet right away?
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0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger (Dash)
1.0 Amel Retic (Mahola)RIP Buddy.
0.1 Ball Python (Cyeanne)
0.1 Red Tail (Memphis)
1.0 Coral Sun Glow Boa (Rodman)
0.1 Blood Python (Danica)
1.0 Green Ananconda (Prefontain)
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa (Bing Bong)
1.0 Ivory Ball Python (Hansel)
0.1 Bumble Bee Ball Python (Sissy)
0.0.2 Yellow Ackies (Ludmilla and Ivan Drago)

It's a good idea to talk to the person whom you may (but wont) purchase the animal from. If the animal is healthy then it should be fine. But in all honesty, you are only looking to keep a chat going and not really doing much research or seem very serious about purchasing an animal. Just like your previous post, when within a week you decided to wait until next December (LOL!!!). Well, at least you're not having a potential seller jumping through hoops for you...

"Is it a good idea to take the babies to a vet right away?"

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. One of the most suggested initial treatments is deworming. I firmly believe that unless parasites are actually seen crawlin' out of the butt a proper diet & setup is the best treatment. No excess trauma, physical or mental.

I think Savs are looked down on by some people because of the things that can take place during mass importation. I believe that if they weren't such cheap imports and produced more in captivity that they would be one of the leading captives for novice & experienced keepers, alike. If left to come around on their own terms & not force-handled, they are quite an intriguing captive. They are without doubt one of the toughest varanids. They're survivalists. And darn good at it.

I don't have any personal experience with Blackthroats but based on what I know about them & my years of Sav experience, I believe their basic behavior, temperament, is pretty much the same - generally speaking.

As for obesity in Savs particularly being attributed to rodents as a staple - I respectfully disagree. Yes, in the wild their staple is invertebrates. Is it reasonably possible to feed a 3 - 4ft Sav nothing but crickets, roaches, snails? How many crickets/roaches would a Sav that size eat each week? What does it take to maintain a colony large enough that would produce that amount? Actually, crickets are only about 7% less crude fat than rodents.

In my own experiments over the years with my Savs I have found that if Savs are set up & fed properly, a staple of rodents is not the leading cause of obesity. I've also found that this saying is true: "Once fat, always fat". In my research the fat reserves never completely go away. No matter what. So keep this in mind when feeding monitors, particularly trying to get young ones up to adult size in short time.

At the moment, I'm not saying that a "rodent-only" diet is the way to go with Savs. I'm still researching, experimenting. I will say that regardless of the food source, monitors need to be challenged, encouraged, to stay active & burn calories.

I have to say that I most always cringe whenever I read "Start out with......., then you can get such-n-such once you've got experience. I believe things are different with most monitors than they are with other reptiles. I don't have a Blackthroat because I started out with Savs and a Nile. I've got room for another large monitor but can't afford the additional costs. I also keep Burmese & Reticulated Pythons. None of these animals are ones that you can so easily trade out for something else. They're all a lifetime commitment. Get what you want the first time around.

Kinda like Frank said - between Ford & Chevy.... Like: Mustang or Camaro. But what would you (rotten) know about that? Ha! Ha!

Catch ya later!
Mike
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

Thanks HH, where have you been, long time. I see you are now into tics. Nice. Its funny, I totally overlooked the Sav.
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0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger (Dash)
1.0 Amel Retic (Mahola)RIP Buddy.
0.1 Ball Python (Cyeanne)
0.1 Red Tail (Memphis)
1.0 Coral Sun Glow Boa (Rodman)
0.1 Blood Python (Danica)
1.0 Green Ananconda (Prefontain)
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa (Bing Bong)
1.0 Ivory Ball Python (Hansel)
0.1 Bumble Bee Ball Python (Sissy)
0.0.2 Yellow Ackies (Ludmilla and Ivan Drago)

Hi Mike, I bought my daugthers a 66 mustang when they were in high school and my son a 68 sss camaro. They sold them both about 5 years ago. Cheers

"I bought my daugthers a 66 mustang when they were in high school and my son a 68 sss camaro."

You can adopt me anytime, Frank.

My first car was a suped up '69 SS Camaro. Years later I got a stock 6cyl '67 Mustang. What I wouldn't give to have that Camaro back.......

The reason I mentioned Mustang/Camaro was because rottenweiler9 has, or used to have, one of the newer Mustangs that were pretty sharp.

Dang, I'm gettin' old because I loved the reminiscence! Thanks, Frank!

Later!
Mike
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

Yea, for a long time I did not like the newer ones, now, I like both the new cams and new mustangs. Good thing I am poor. Cheers

Yeah, Ford almost ran the Mustang in the ground by continually producing it but they had a few key models over the years. And I'm basically a Ford man [definitely a Ford truck man). I've got to say though that Chevy nailed it with the 2010 Camaro. drooling..... And Dodge did good with the Challenger, too. Waiting on them to come out with a new SuperBee. I'm also waiting to hit the lottery as that's my only hope in geting one of these newer muscle cars.

http://www.happyhillbilly.com/Happy Hillbilly Avatar copy.gif

Later!
Mike
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

Yeah, Ford almost ran the Mustang in the ground by continually producing it but they had a few key models over the years. And I'm basically a Ford man [definitely a Ford truck man). I've got to say though that Chevy nailed it with the 2010 Camaro. drooling..... And Dodge did good with the Challenger, too. Waiting on them to come out with a new SuperBee. I'm also waiting to hit the lottery as that's my only hope in geting one of these newer muscle cars.

-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

You are doing the right thing asking these kinds of questions nothing wrong with doing research. I wish more people would.

I for one disagree with the not feeding rodents to savs. You will stunt their growth feeding just bugs. And mice and rats fed on a nutritious diet are healthy for many species of reptiles including savs. Its not like feeding "big macs" to them LOL.

Where are the feeder mice and rats decended from originally? Asia? Europe? Probably not Africa.

Where are dubia roaches from? South America

Where are the crickets from? Europe

Where are the Canadian Night Crawlers from? Thats a no brainer

There is nothing "natural" about a captive monitors diet. Its probably not even legal to import many of the insects they would be feeding on in the wild. Its certainly not practical.

>>There is nothing "natural" about a captive monitors diet.
>>Its probably not even legal to import many of the insects
>>they would be feeding on in the wild. Its certainly not
>>practical.

Giant millipedes and emperor scorpions are a normal part of the diets of wild savs, and these are common in the pet trade. It would be very expensive to feed a sav a diet of these things, though.

Getting back to the original question ... the pros and cons of keeping a sav:

Pros:
(1) Tractable temperment - savs tend to get fairly trusting and docile if raised from hatchlings.
(2) Hardy - wild savs can withstand 2/3 of the year of fasting and harsh conditions, so they can tolerate periods of neglect in captivity as well.
(3) Impressive size.

Cons:
(1) Dull coloration.
(2) Stubby shape (if you are the kind of person who likes the longer slender species).
(3) Boring behavior (obviously depends on what you consider boring - will vary from keeper to keeper).
(4) Large size (more work, larger cage).

For me, I only have so much room for enclosures, so I want to focus on the species that really interest me - the gouldii complex (arguses, flavies, Gould's monitors) and maybe some of the dwarfs. Thus, I don't want savannas, because then I would have to give up room for triple crosses, or flavies, or something else I would rather have. I have had endearing savs in the past, but see nothing about them that would make me prefer another sav over a gouldii-type monitor.

Luke

Hahahha HH, I knew you where going down that path. I just traded in the GT Mustang last year for a 2010 GT500. What a world of difference in power and speed, hence the reason I have not grown my collection in a year. Wife was a little peeved that I traded up when she was out of town. But as I say everytime I get a new pet, better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

FR, those are some pretty nice cars. I see your taste in cars is the same as reptiles. Very Nice.

Eli thanks for your support. I was going to respond back to Gregs comment, since this is part of my research by asking keepers because there is only so much you can read about heat, feeding and dirt, Hahahaha but hey I also forgot to read the sign that said this was only a forum for those who where going to buy in the next two days. Because 99% of the animials listed below that I have where bought after talking to the breeders and never on the spot and in some cases a year later. I always waited until that right moment for all, because there is always someone else willing to buy I do not feel the pressure, and I am not going to impulse buy a living animal that will be around for 15 plus years. Sorry, and if I change my mind then so be it. Better for me and the animal then from someone who just wants to make a quick sale and their money (Sounds like you). That is one reason I respect Pro Exotics so much and give other buisness to them while I determine what I can and can't handle. They answer questions and want whats best for all. Not to mention circumstances change and so does my mind. I guess you have never done that, I guess your just a better person for it. Hahahha. "In all honesty".
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0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger (Dash)
1.0 Amel Retic (Mahola)RIP Buddy.
0.1 Ball Python (Cyeanne)
0.1 Red Tail (Memphis)
1.0 Coral Sun Glow Boa (Rodman)
0.1 Blood Python (Danica)
1.0 Green Ananconda (Prefontain)
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa (Bing Bong)
1.0 Ivory Ball Python (Hansel)
0.1 Bumble Bee Ball Python (Sissy)
0.0.2 Yellow Ackies (Ludmilla and Ivan Drago)

I would do your research with Sav's. Look at the stomach contents of wild specimens. Lots of insects. Just because its not a dwarf speceis, some think rodents, rodents, rodents. Again, I try to duplicate what they would eat. I'm sure Savannas like most monitors will eat most anything they can overpower. All I've read is how insects aren't convienent to keep or pratical to feed, its about what's best for the animal, not convienent for the keeper. That's why I don't keep savannahs anymore. I don't like having to go and buy roaches.(there are many speceis available as feeders) I also know friends that keep and breed colonies of dubias and crickets to feed to their monitors. Ask yourself why more people haven't had more success breeding savannas. Its not because they're rare, its because of improper husbandry.IMHO.

Joe

people don't breed Sav's because they require alot of work for little reward.other than breeding them-but you can get a bit more reward on other monitors,maybe.if people don't have success with a particular species we should learn from their mistakes,not take their advise.you probably don't have monitor husbandry down quite yet if you can raise them on rodents.this stomach contents thing gets old,other than the larger monitors,most monitors don't have rodents as a major percentage of their stomach contents but have been shown to thrive on rodent based diets.what does it tell you when some people raise their monitors on rodents and have success and others don't-i guess the ones with success are doing something wrong because they should get fat and lethargic.i am sorry if it seems i am ranting-but like human health issues we need to look at the causes and practice preventative husbandry.

People have tried to breed savanna's with little success. What is the average life spans of most savannahs? If you don't want to talk stomach contents look at how short most monitors lives are in captivity.(not just savannas) Most of the people I know who have success breeding monitors don't have fat overweight lazy animals. Why is it savannas are raised like this though? You don't have to take my word for it, just look at the facts. 10 year old savannas are rare. Consider how many are brought in and survive long enough to be sold. Some die from tempature problems, but a lot of people have them and around 6 or 7 years old the animal dies. Then they wonder what happened because the had all their temps right and deep substrate, with plenty of room. If you eat high fat foods and still work out everyday, you will still eventually have a heart attack, or stroke, or any other number of problems. You did make a good point. Listen to people who have had success, well isn't that the problem. Not very many people are hving success with savannas. Maybe it's time to take a look at monitor diet. I keep salvator and salvadorii. I feed them both different varied diets of whole prey items. Based on what they would encounter more of in the wild. My animals are still young, so I guess time will tell. I have been down the. Road of just throwing rats and mice in the cage. Years down the road you end up with fat lathargic animals. To each his own. Ultimately its the animals that suffer from a keepers stubborness and unwillingness to see what is going on with their animal. Maybe down the road people will begin to figure out monitor diets and have more long term success. Just my opinion.

what you say is sadly right,but this is still based on the advise of those that failed.from the forums that i've been following there has not been anymore success no matter if the diet was rodent based or insect based-so is it possible it could be husbandry issues.every site i've been on people ask what they should feed their Sav,the majority says not to feed rodents exclusively-but the majority have short lived monitors that don't breed-to me this doesn't make sense.the people that have bred Sav's say they are no harder to keep than any other monitor-and they live long lives.i choose to take advice of the minority that have success,all i know monitors don't live based on democracy.
Moe

I don't know of anyone that has successfully bred savannas year after year. Some have had onetime success, sure. Who do you know that breeds savannas yearly? That said, each individual has the freedom to do what they think is best. I still think there is a lot we need to learn about many of the so called "common" species. I can't say for sure what is 100% successful because there are so many variables when keeping varanids. Diet is just one part. It is always good to get advice from those who have had success with a species though.

Joe

I am not aware of anyone who has continued breeding Sav's after their first breeding.Joe,how are your Black Salvators doing-i'm envious. Moe

Could someone show me a savannah monitor that is 15 years old that has been fed nothing but insects or mainly insects as a staple diet. Apparently rodents take so many years off a sav. I would like to see one fed on insects, how big they are how they are kept etc.

The komaini's are doing great. I'm almost finished with the large cage they will share. I've introduced them to each others smells by swapping cork hollows from one cage to another. The female has been showing signs of ovulation, so she has next box in with her now. The female is right around 4 feet and the male is just under 4 feet. I'll post some pictures today. I'm going to try and breed them, so I'll keep you posted.

Joe,
I hope you don't interpret this as a personal attack or anything other than what it is - a mere discussion about Savs, not meant to offend, but inform & inquire, to share.

I know exactly where you're coming from about trying to replicate nature in their feeding habits. For the most part I agree with you. I could make one heck of a case for either side of this issue. My problem with this is when we pick/choose to allow a change here & there, but not in other areas. Yes, I'm guilty of it, too.

In your first post you stated: "I always adapt to my animals, I never try to make them fit into my life."

* Instead of us living in the wild to be near the animals we love, we move the animals into small cages within our manmade homes - to make them fit into our lives.

* We give them light bulbs in place of sunlight.

I could go on but don't have enough time right now.

"If you don't want to talk stomach contents look at how short most monitors lives are in captivity.(not just savannas) Most of the people I know who have success breeding monitors don't have fat overweight lazy animals. Why is it savannas are raised like this though? You don't have to take my word for it, just look at the facts."

Joe, can you post any links to studies that support your claim that rodents are the cause of Savannah Monitors' short average lifespan in captivity? The reason I ask is that most of the people I've seen say that obesity in Savs is the result of rodents have either no personal experience with them or their experience is limited to a couple of years, max.

From your posts in this discussion it looks like you're making a big jump by concluding that Sav obesity is due to rodents while ignoring the many other factors involved.

Here is what I believe to be the leading cause of Sav obesity: Poor husbandry, in general (excluding prey type) & the quest for “Big”.
* Savs are the cheapest & most easily obtained monitor. Making what beginners think to be the perfect chance to have a monitor. I'd venture to say that, at the time of purchase, at least 75 - 90% of the people who buy them don't have a clue as to what their setup is supposed to be.

* Don’t forget about how so many people want something “big”. They don’t just want a monitor, but a "big" monitor. A big lizard. A lot of people power-feed their captives just to make ‘em big. I’m constantly fighting this with Burmese Python owners, and it’s prevalent in nearly all captive animals. Many experienced keepers are guilty of this. I’ve seen a reptile industry leader with a retic so fat that it looked like a Burm. It’s ludicrous. But I guess it sells.

Why Savs aren't in the captive-bred mainstream?
* Largely due to the fact that the overwhelming majority of Sav keepers are too inexperienced.
* Competition - Who wants to spend all the time & money to produce $100 - $200 CB Savs when most people won't spend more than 20 - 40 bucks for one?
* Most of the people that have bred them have only had a few decent runs, at the most. Seems to me that Savs may be harder to continually reproduce in captivity than other monitors.

I do think your posts in this discussion are worth your effort and I hope that this discussion will jar someone into really digging in and experimenting. We need more actual research. My personal Sav studies that I'm working on came from an obesity discussion here years ago. I set out to dispel the myths and seek the truth, for myself, not just taking someone's word for it.

Thanks for chipping into the discussion!

Later!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

Well, I'm not offended at all. The things I've been stating are my opinion. I made sure to put that at the end of several of my posts. I kept savanna's for around 8 years. I know that's not a long time, but I did notice a big difference in my animals and others I saw. My pair was very active and seemed to prowl there inclosure in search of food. The assumptions I am making are two fold. One, I am a pretty active person. I work out, play multiple sports etc. When you start learning about nutrition, you start to learn that different types of food affect your bdy differently. High protein foods for example, tend to make you feel fuller longer and sit heavier in your stomach. I could go on, but that's just an example. Rats are not a major part of there wild diet. We're not comparing mammals verses mammals here, we're talking about an animal with a very specific diet in the wild. its vastly different from what most people offer. Much higher levels of protein, fat, calcium, etc. Who knows what long term affects this will have? I think they are a contributing factor with poor health in captive savannas, as well as, other specialist that are in the pet trade. Two, why would you not look at stomach contents. These animals are adapted to a certain diet. Their bodies have evolved to handle certain types of prey items. Hardly any mammals. Some of your other arguements are kind of pointless, no offense. Obviously, the animals aren't in a natural envoirnment. I do use full spectrum UVB bulbs on all my monitors. The are active forragers by nature and in sunlight a lot, so I use UVB. I approach keeping monitors by looknig at the rsults of others and learning from, good or bad. People will ultimately do what they want. Even if it was proven tommorow what type of diet works, some wouldn't change because "its the way they always did it".

specialized diets of monitors is being dispelled-any animal with such a high metabolism can't be restricted by being too specialized-what they eat is based on opportunity IMO When we get to caught up in stomach contents we limit ourselves-look at we are finding with subgenera Philippinosaurus monitors
I would like to add that despite the difference of opinion it is refreshing how civil everyone has been on this topic-and no personal attacks Moe

I couldn't agree more. It's nice when people can have different opinions on something while keeping in mind, that both sides have the animals best interest in mind.

"Some of your other arguements are kind of pointless, no offense."

Ha! Ha! Do us both a favor and find a better way to say that next time.

"...why would you not look at stomach contents."

I didn't address the stomach contents issue, pro or con. But if you want to look at stomach contents you also have to consider prey availability. Insects far outnumber rodents in the African savannahs. Savannah Monitors are diurnal and rodents are nocturnal, meaning that their paths rarely cross. A Sav isn't going to walk past a rodent's nest full of easy pickings to eat a millipede instead.

You mentioned that there were a few good books on Savs. Allow me to quote from one of them:
What should I feed my savannah monitors?
Insects and small rodents are best. In the wild savannah monitors feed on a fairly narrow range of invertebrates, but supplying them with giant millipedes, giant crickets and emperor scorpions would be extremely expensive, so we must use readily available food items to meet our captive monitors' dietary needs. *The Savannah Monitor Lizard, Daniel Bennett & Ravi Thakoordyal - Pg. 58

What foods should I never use?
Canned dog food, eggs and strips of meat...... *The Savannah Monitor Lizard, Daniel Bennett & Ravi Thakoordyal - Pg. 60

Seems like I saw someone in this discussion talk about feeding eggs and raw meat.

Later!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

Like I said from the beginnig, some will argue.(myself included) I will never be convinced that feeding an animal that is primarily an invertebrate feeder should be fed vertebrates primarily. There is no logic in it to me. Feed your monitors whatever you like. Science has shown us what some monitor species eat, I am going to choose to pay attention to nature and not be stubborn. I don't keep savannas, because I don't want to deal with their diet. The original poster was asking why people are down on savannas. I hope this conversation has accomplished one thing, the OP can see why now. There is obviously a disagreement on what should be fed to sav's. I don't see to many other species being discussed in the same way. Most keepers of the smaller odatria, openly accept that they are insect feeders. Why simply based on their size? I still don't understand the outright stubborness of people to simply look at whats best for this species. I kept sav's improperly, and when I changed their diet, it was like having a completely different animal.
Sorry HH, if that came across the wrong way. Next time I will find a better way of saying that. Pointless is not the right word. Off topic or redundant, maybe. No offense was meant. It still just baffles me, the arguments behind savanna keeping. So many other species have become more popular, and have been bred that were once thought to be difficult to keep. Yet, this animal doesn't get the same considerations. Maybe we the keepers are coming up short. I find savannas to be fascinating and rewarding captives. If we strive to understand their dietary needs better, maybe we as a hobby will have more success with them down the road.

Joe

I think this discussion will cause some people to think. That's about the best we can hope for, ain't it?

As for the way that sentence came across - forget about it. No problem.

Catch ya later!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

potencial of all...they are fun to keep.

should become the most profitable monitor specie...if keepers start keeping them right...someday someone will breed then and start producing many many unseen color morphs...will I be there to see this then????

at the past varanoculture is progressing not a chance!!!

np

Why don't you breed them?