Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This is Annabella. Just thought I would share.
Thanks for looking

-----
Tom S
1.1 Flame Lampropeltis getla brooki
1.0 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis getula brooksi
0.1 Anerythristic Lampropeltis getula brooksi
0.1 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis
1.0 Anerythristic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis

It looks kind of blue. What kind is it?

It's Anerythristic. Thanks for looking
-----
Tom S
1.1 Flame Lampropeltis getla brooki
1.0 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis getula brooksi
0.1 Anerythristic Lampropeltis getula brooksi
0.1 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis
1.0 Anerythristic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis

"It's Anerythristic. Thanks for looking"

Actually it is axanthic.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

"It's Anerythristic. Thanks for looking"

Actually it is axanthic.

www.kingsnake.com/articles/Glossary.html

Thought I'd post this link as these terms often confuse me! LOL!
-----
Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

I agree with Rainer in that the snake is what is known in the hobby as "axanthic". But this is certainly not to say there isn't a whole bunch of confusion between axanthism and anerythrism, because there sure the heck is, and in some cases it is a very complex issue to accurately distingush either way in certain types of snakes.

This is because the word "axanthic" itself literally means lack of yellow, and is derived from the Greek word "xanthos" meaning yellow,....thus the term "axanthic" for no yellow, and not anerythristic(lack of red pigment(erythrin).

However, the huge problem lies in exactly which pigment cells(chromatophores are responsible for the lack of either color(s).
See, xanthophores produce BOTH reds AND yellow pigments, and any shade in between, but they are commonly referred to as separate entities. It is also quite complicated because brooks can naturally have both yellows and reds in their color scheme, or just shades of yellow, or just red/orange shades too. Or even none of these, just shades of blacks, greys, and white/beige in some. Now with a snake that only posesses melanin and yellows, such as a splendida, it being termed as axanthic is much simpler because it only involves the yellow colorations, but when you get into snakes involving any combinations of reds, oranges and yellows, it can be much more complex to understand..LOL!

There is no doubt that there are some different bloodlines and phenotypes of these anery, or axanthic brooks, and they have to be called something, and the bluish hued individual in the above post does in fact look to be what are known as "axanthic" brooks, and quite possibly from the New England bloodline too. But as to what exactly the many different lines actually are, is very debatable. Here is the problem, and why it can be much more complex than just what we see in the phenotypic colors of certain snakes.

Xanthophores.......

These chromatophores produce red and yellow pigments known as pteridines. These may vary in color from pure yellow to pure red, as well as intermediate shades. Xanthophores possessing a predominantly red coloration are referred to as erythrophores.

Xanthophores also retain yellow to reddish pigments contained in the diet in the form of carotenoids. Carotenoid retention continues throughout life, and intensity of pigmentation varies based on the quantity and types of carotenoids contained in the diet. Additionally, the animals' genetic predisposition towards and ability to store carotenoids will affect appearance.

As soon as I saw that photo Tom posted, I said to myself, that is an axanthic brooks as Rainer also mentioned. I also lightened the photo on my comuter and it still had the VERY strong tell-tale bluish trait indicative of what are known as axanthic brooks.

Anyway, there is nothing real cut and dry when it comes to really fully understanding certain genetics, and exactly what causes ther phenotypic look..LOL!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

You make this stuff up don't you? J/K

Dude you are like an encyclopedia, just mind blowing.
-----
BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
1.2 P. m. melanoleucus B/W N. J. Northern Pines
1.2 P. d. deppei Mexican Pines
2.2 P. l. lineaticollis Linis or Lined Pines
1.2 P. m. lodingi Black Pines
0.3 P. c. sayi Kingsville X Stillwater red bulls
1.1 Drymarchon melenurus Blacktail Cribo
1.2 D. corais Yellowtail Cribos
1.2 M. s. cheynei Jungle Carpet
2.6 L. p. pyromelana Arizona Mt. Kings
1.1 L. g. californiae B/W Cali kings
0.0.3 M. f. flagellum Eastern Coachwhips
1.2 G. m. bottegoi Western Plated lizards

LOL!!,...I know man, some stuff is just insanely complicated if you really dig deep enough..HAHAA!

I have been studying snakes for many years, but am just as "in the dark" on certain things too as even a newbie that has owned just one cornsnake in their entire lives from a mall pet store..LOL!

I have always wanted to know as much as possible since about 1967 about this snake hobby I have loved for so long, but to know it all just ain't ever gonna happen, not even in 25 lifetimes like I said in my other post..LOL! A good majority might be possible, sure,... but there is just too much to know or comprehend no matter how long one tries regarding alot of it.

Animals and nature are simply too complex to fully understand, simple as that.

and thanks for the kind words Big T!..

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I got here late, lol. I tried to read all the posts, since I will be breeding some different bloodlines this summer hopefully. But did anyone mention that some Axanthic and Aneries are incompatable? It's hard to know which, because of the mixing of the lines. Untill you breed them that is.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I can't remember which ones off the top of my head, but I believe you are correct. Rainer knows which one's those were, but I forgot over time..LOL! As you know, it's tough to remember everything you took in over the years with all types of snakes..LOL!

May have been BHB's line and Lemke's, but not real sure.

Thanks for bringing that up Jorge, because I originally forgot all about that..LOL!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Although I haven't peeked at BHB's definitions lately, they have two strains/lines. Lemke and New England are compatible.

BHB has an axanthic, or what they call anery line that is also compatible. From what I remember they call this the south florida. The other is their anery florida. These two are not compatible. Most of their axanthic/anery south florida stock came from me back in 97. Brian had originally purchased a pair of anerys from Lloyd around the same time I did, but was having trouble with production. I had zero problems what so ever. Brian purchased my entire clutch and outcrossed it to several unrelated animals in hopes of improving productivity.

In other words, you can tell by looking which is which. What is known as anery these days are black and white as babies, and brown and white as adults. Axanthics are black and blue as babies and adults. Axanthics are also much more pale and brooksi looking as adults. It's hard to believe I've worked with these for almost 20 years and still one of my favorite snakes ever.
-----
www.brandonosbornereptiles.com

Thanks for that interesting info Brandon!, that is greatly appreciated!

My original point in this entire thread though wasn't really which ones looked different, or which ones were called anery or axanthic because there is a very obvious difference, and one type is simply "called" an anerythristic, and the other type is simply "called" axanthic, but they BOTH fit the genetic definition of either term...LOL!

Anyway, thanks for the history's on those different lines bro!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I knew what you where getting at....should've made that point as well.lol. I agree with what you are saying. Looking at what we call axanthic(lacking yellow), all of my het axanthic babies had bright red sides as hatchling, which to me indicated they were also anery. I've always been of the opinion that the "axanthics" were more than just axanthic because of the hets.

As far as the different "lines", the information has always been there, I just don't think it was explained in a clear enough manner.
-----
www.brandonosbornereptiles.com

Thanks for the information, with that said I am liking my female even more
-----
Tom S
1.1 Flame Lampropeltis getla Floridana
1.0 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis getula Floridana
0.1 Axanthic Lampropeltis getula Floridana
0.1 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis
1.0 Anerythristic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis

Yes the anery and axanthic are incompatiple.

Also the terms "axanthic" and "anery" are hobbiest terms.in a forensic sense they are correct and can be used interchangably (per Bechtel).
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

I completely agree regardless of technical definitions there are two genes that are incomparable that produce similar affects. It would be to our benefit as group to separate the nomenclature and identify each separately by a unique trade name to reduce confusion. I doubt we have seen the last gene that produces a phenotype that could be described as Axanthic or Anertheristic, corn snakes have 4 and probably 6 different hypo genes. I have feeling Florida kings will catch up as they get more popular.

The reason I called it Anerythristic Brooksi is because that's what BHB called it. So my question is if I breed it to a hypo will I get hets for Ghost? I id notice that when I read the BIG BOOK(Common Kingsnakes) that he had mentioned that it was floridana. All information would be helpful.
Thanks everyone.
-----
Tom S
1.1 Flame Lampropeltis getla brooki
1.0 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis getula brooksi
0.1 Anerythristic Lampropeltis getula brooksi
0.1 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis
1.0 Anerythristic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis

Yes, you will indeed get double hets for the ghost trait. They will simply be slight different variations of what are out there, depending on the several different anery/axanthic bloodlines used to create them.

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

So with an Anery you get one form of Ghost and with Axanthic you will get another. With Anery you still have a chance of retaining yellow in the snake and with Axanthic you will not?
-----
Tom S
1.1 Flame Lampropeltis getla brooki
1.0 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis getula brooksi
0.1 Anerythristic Lampropeltis getula brooksi
0.1 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis
1.0 Anerythristic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis

>>So with an Anery you get one form of Ghost and with Axanthic you will get another. With Anery you still have a chance of retaining yellow in the snake and with Axanthic you will not?

An Anery animal can be Axanthic as well, but an Axanthic is not Anery....
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Yes, literally defined, that is basically it John..LOL!...just as with anerythristic cornsnakes that have no red pigment, but still can display a substantial amount of yellow pigment. Especially later on as they mature. An axanthic corn would be one that had absolutely neither color. Heck, you could technically call anery type B "charcoals" that expressed zero yellow as axanthics to be quite honest. But the ones that DO show some yellow could not be called axanthic..LOL!....ARRRGH!!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>>Yes, literally defined, that is basically it John..LOL!...just as with anerythristic cornsnakes that have no red pigment, but still can display a substantial amount of yellow pigment. Especially later on as they mature. An axanthic corn would be one that had absolutely neither color. Heck, you could technically call anery type B "charcoals" that expressed zero yellow as axanthics to be quite honest. But the ones that DO show some yellow could not be called axanthic..LOL!....ARRRGH!!

Just as I think there is no such thing as an Anery Calking or Desert King....There's no erythrin there to be absent......LOL
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

"Just as I think there is no such thing as an Anery Calking or Desert King....There's no erythrin there to be absent"

EXACTLY!!!!..LOL!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Brown looking snakes should have erythracin, as you need red to make brown. You could say the same thing about chain kings and there have been "blue" chain kings found in the wild but havent made it to the hobby yet. I also think the Anery gene in many kings and milks is well hidden beneath maturing colors.

"Brown looking snakes should have erythracin, as you need red to make brown"

Then where is all this "red" on an amel splendida??, they are also commonly dark brown as well as black?

Browns are produced by melanin in the melanophore cells(melanocytes), it's not like mixing paint on a color wheel in snakes. Although there many times are reds exposed in certain amel phenotypes, such as amel Black Rats, etc..but it is only due to the other normal pigment cells(erythrophores still actively producing erythrin) as they normally would.

Don Shores' hypo splendida are VERY noticeably brown colored, so again, where is the red pigment in those when the melanin is reduced or taken away?? There is only red in certain snakes, but it isn't necessarily a composite of melanin in brown snakes at all.

And what the hell is erythracin?, an antibiotic?

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

"So with an Anery you get one form of Ghost and with Axanthic you will get another. With Anery you still have a chance of retaining yellow in the snake and with Axanthic you will not?"

Well, that is only in "theory" the way the two mutations would be technically defined. With the floridana, it is way different than in some other types of snakes because the two terms are used interchangeably. Neither the anery gene OR the axanthic gene in floridana display any yellows or reds, so either form won't produce any. The only difference being that several of the lines that show no yellows or reds are called both anery and axanthic. What is important is that the different lines originally looked different, but now days many of these morphs have been all mixed together anyway because distinguishing them all was dificult in the first place ANYWAY. But now it is virtually impossible to know exactly which types made what..LOL!

The N. E. axanthics have been crossed to the BHB line, Lemke line and so on, so who the hell knows now..LOL!. All I know is the very blueish colred animals were originally referred to as axanthics, and the plainer black and white ones were pretty much called anerythristics. But that doesn't mean either ones were necessarily truly axanthic or anery, it just means that is what they were originally called.

Confusing?....you bet!..LOL!, but that is the deal. When you have axanthophores being responsible for both yellows and reds, the pteridines are the real difference, and it all depends on what these different floridana lines would normally be displaying as babies anyway..LOL!

If you read my other post, you can start to get a handle on just how complex the anery/axanthic issue really is with the floridana. Axanthic splendida on the other hand are very simple, as they don't involve red pigment, so they are truly axanthic in my opinion. But the different lines of anery/axanthic floridana is simply anyone's guess. Only a lab geneticist that did chromatophore cell testing could convince me either way on these things, and even they would be scratching their heads because different floridana have naturally occurring different ranges of each color as hatchlings anyway..LOL!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

So what you are saying is, in about 6 years I will just have to see what comes out. LOL With the blue hue I will get a more Axanthic looking Brook, then an Anery look.
-----
Tom S
1.1 Flame Lampropeltis getla brooki
1.0 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis getula brooksi
0.1 Axanthic Lampropeltis getula brooksi
0.1 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis
1.0 Anerythristic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis

Well, no not really..LOL! The bluish ones were simply "CALLED "New England axanthics", but since both anery and axanthics lines don't have yellow either OR red for that matter, which term is technically correct?....NOBODY knows this.

All I am saying is your bluish animal is the type that is called axanthic, but it doesn't mean it can't also be called an anerythristic,....because THERE IS NO RED!..LOL!

You can only know the true technical differences if you know what any given clutch of floridana would NATURALLY HAVE in regards to reds, oranges, and yellows. They can naturally have any combination of these colors. The term anerythristic simply means no red pigment. If any given clutch contained BOTH yellows and reds, then a baby popped out with neither, and didn't develop any later on either, it would be an axanthic.

I have no idea exactly which types you will get in later breedings, because I have no idea of it's genetic lineage. All I can say is that neither coined term has yellows or reds..LOL!,and the bluish types were originally coined axanthic. To further confuse the issue, axanthics don't have to be bluish at ALL!, as long as they have no yellow or red. But at the same time, the anery brooks are like that too, just not as blue and are a bit plainer looking I guess for lack of a better term.

Anyway, the confusion with these will go on forever I am quite sure..LOL!

But you will get double het for ghosts, and later on ghosts.

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

n/p
-----
Tom S
1.1 Flame Lampropeltis getla Floridana
1.0 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis getula Floridana
0.1 Axanthic Lampropeltis getula Floridana
0.1 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis
1.0 Anerythristic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis

When I went back and read your comment once again, yes, I would agree. You may very well get some different looks to offspring because the non-related hypo brooks is involved. Sorry for the confusion on that particular part of my reply to your question..LOL!. But as you now see there is too much that is not understood about these, and all sorts of different bloodlines and phenotypes of all these now. The only thing we know here for certain is that the bluer individuals were originally called axanthics, and the very blue types(like yours) were originally coined New England axanthics.

Nice snake BTW!!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Thanks Just here trying to figure everything out.
Thanks again
-----
Tom S
1.1 Flame Lampropeltis getla Floridana
1.0 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis getula Floridana
0.1 Axanthic Lampropeltis getula Floridana
0.1 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis
1.0 Anerythristic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis

Yes, don't feel all alone either. you, me, and everyone else for that matter..LOL!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Doug,
New England axanthics are a line trait. Nothing else.

Once the line is bred out (lets say to a lemke axanthic or unkown axanthic) they are no longer New Englands.

The color scheme has nothing to do with the term new England. It is a pure line bred trait. The phenotypes that were involved from the original founders (who lived in the New England states)were breeding nice looking "old" canal stock when the axanthic came from those animals. The original phenotype is what cuases the light color axanthic adults.

Also pure New England babies tend to be rather ugly (dull) compered to lemke axanthics and other "pretty" blue axanthics. Most of mine almost had a brownish/purple tinge to them. Not preety babies. But the ontogentic lightning causes this line to bloom into geogeous axanthics..

I sold tons of them over the last 12-15 years. Today I never see any for sale. I don't know what happened to that line but the only ones i see advertised are fake outcrossed new Englands. Not pure.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

"Once the line is bred out (lets say to a lemke axanthic or unkown axanthic) they are no longer New Englands"

Yeah, absolutely no doubt about that Rainer. And the fact that the N. England's originated from south Fla. stock makes perfect sense as to them having far more extreme basal lightening(speckling) as adults too compared to more peninsular floridana phenotypes.

Thanks for filling in some of the gaps with the other info as well.

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>>So what you are saying is, in about 6 years I will just have to see what comes out. LOL With the blue hue I will get a more Axanthic looking Brook, then an Anery look.

3 or 4 years at most.....LOL
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

anery and axanthic adults:

-----
www.Bluerosy.com

Yes, Rainer, I know there is a huge difference in what the different lines "look" like, I am talking about what exactly is responsible for the lack of the colors and which genetic term is more accurate to call them. Like as in which ones are actually anery or axanthic?, or vice versa..LOL!. Neither have yellows or reds. You can flip a coin and technically call them either one..LOL!

I am guessing that you didn't read any of the other posts I made since you simply posted a pic of each and that was it.

Nobody knows the answer to this, I guarantee it!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

and take a look at my post below.....

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Sorry about that forgot to put what kind. LOL
-----
Tom S
1.1 Flame Lampropeltis getla brooki
1.0 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis getula brooksi
0.1 Anerythristic Lampropeltis getula brooksi
0.1 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis
1.0 Anerythristic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis

>>Sorry about that forgot to put what kind. LOL

Actually it's a Floridana......LOL
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

are CORRECT!!!! LOL!! I think some folks forget "brooksi" has gone to the wayside awhile back.

I am sooo confused
-----
Tom S
1.1 Flame Lampropeltis getla brooki
1.0 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis getula brooksi
0.1 Anerythristic Lampropeltis getula brooksi
0.1 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis
1.0 Anerythristic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis

Were your axanthic king from the Brooks Canal in South Dade County Florida or from that stock?

L. g. brooksi is no longer recognized as a subspecies.....They are all L. g. floridana.......

Brooksi are just locale variants........Just like a Black Gap Alterna....
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

I bought them from BHB. I haven't got a clue where they came.LOL
I was looking around I saw a few baby pic on they website I liked how they looked. I wanted a Anery and a hypo. So I could have Hets for Ghost and go from there. Also I am on the waiting list to get a pair of High Yellows from DMong.
-----
Tom S
1.1 Flame Lampropeltis getla brooki
1.0 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis getula brooksi
0.1 Axanthic Lampropeltis getula brooksi
0.1 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis
1.0 Anerythristic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis

>>I bought them from BHB. I haven't got a clue where they came.LOL
>>I was looking around I saw a few baby pic on they website I liked how they looked. I wanted a Anery and a hypo. So I could have Hets for Ghost and go from there. Also I am on the waiting list to get a pair of High Yellows from DMong.

Brian probably still calls them brooksi.......

They are all floridna......
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Well I went down and changed my signature at the bottom so I can be up to date. LOL Thanks John
-----
Tom S
1.1 Flame Lampropeltis getla Floridana
1.0 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis getula Floridana
0.1 Axanthic Lampropeltis getula Floridana
0.1 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis
1.0 Anerythristic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis

The coined name "brooksi" are simply clinal wild-type variants of floridana that once were classified as their own subspecies. But the term gets WAYYY over-used in this hobby is all. Brooks kings are indeed floridana, but floridana have never been brooksi..LOL!. This is just technical preciceness though, so don't worry too much about it..LOL!

But if you REALLY want to get technical, don't add the "hondurensis" in your signature either, and simply call them "Hondos"..LOL!, as that is an entirely whole other ball of wax..LOL! I explain this in great detail on my website's homepage also. Again, just a precise technicality there too. But it is something that many are not fully aware of with all the reasons why many so-called L.t.hondurensis" in the hobby are not all 100% genuine hondurensis, but rather composits of the very closely-related polyzona, abnorma, and stuarti blended into the gene pools as described by Kenneth Williams in ~ "Systematics and Natural History of the North American Milksnake". Some meristically key-out much better than others in the hobby, but many are most definitely composits to some degree. Some looking much more hondurensis than others. The import animals were no exception either, as the collectors and exporters threw them all into boxes and shipped them off as one type or the other without knowing what they actually were too, or what area in Latin america they even originated from. Further still, many were collected from different areas and shipped from another that afforded more easy-going export politics.

I only know of ONE person that has any true locality hondurensis from central and northeastern Nicaragua, and I will likely be qcquiring some fairly soon.

The bottom line is that most of this hobby figures that anything that basically any snake resembling a Honduran milksnake and has a snout band and rings derived from Central America means that it is a definite pure hondurensis, and this is just not so at all!. "Hobby" Honduran's yes, but genuine L.t.hondurensis ....most are definitely not. Some might be, but there is no way to tell their past lineage over all these years.

Anyway, I am certainly not making a huge deal about your signature, because I also have TONS of these very same types of snakes..LOL!, it's just the way it is, and you cannot reverse it.

One thing I have found over the course of 43 years of being heavy into snakes, and that is......sometimes the MORE you find out, the less you really "know"..LOL!. This is one complex hobby man, and a million different facets. Nobody could learn or know all of it in 25 lifetimes..LOL!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I only know of ONE person that has any true locality hondurensis from central and northeastern Nicaragua, and I will likely be qcquiring some fairly soon.

Now how can a Honduran milk be from Nicaragua? LOL

One thing I have found over the course of 43 years of being heavy into snakes, and that is......sometimes the MORE you find out, the less you really "know"..LOL!. This is one complex hobby man, and a million different facets. Nobody could learn or know all of it in 25 lifetimes..LOL!

You may not know it all but you sure know a hell of a lot. LOL
-----
BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
1.2 P. m. melanoleucus B/W N. J. Northern Pines
1.2 P. d. deppei Mexican Pines
2.2 P. l. lineaticollis Linis or Lined Pines
1.2 P. m. lodingi Black Pines
0.3 P. c. sayi Kingsville X Stillwater red bulls
1.1 Drymarchon melenurus Blacktail Cribo
1.2 D. corais Yellowtail Cribos
1.2 M. s. cheynei Jungle Carpet
2.6 L. p. pyromelana Arizona Mt. Kings
1.1 L. g. californiae B/W Cali kings
0.0.3 M. f. flagellum Eastern Coachwhips
1.2 G. m. bottegoi Western Plated lizards

Good question Big T!. Their natural range in pure form is found throughout portions of the eastern slope of Honduras, and up into Nicaragua, the Pacific portion of El Salvador, on into northwestern Costa Rica. My friend's two bloodlines just happen to be from Nicaragua is all. They intergrade with abnorma to the north in Belize and Guatemala, and several other Latin forms that abut their range...

yeah, not all snakes from Honduras are hondurensis, stuarti occupies the pacific southern side of the mountains there.

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>> But if you REALLY want to get technical, don't add the "hondurensis" in your signature either, and simply call them "Hondos"..LOL!, as that is an entirely whole other ball of wax..LOL!

LOL...I was not going to go there but I thought about it......ha!

call them what you want bigtman......I am not the snake police.....
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

>> I only know of ONE person that has any true locality hondurensis from central and northeastern Nicaragua, and I will likely be acquiring some fairly soon.

And they have a real nice yellow to them, right?.........
I should get some this year myself......
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Yes, the adults have some nice yellow inner rings!

I will probably score some genuine abnorma from Scott's Guatemalan import line as well...those are the real-deal with well over 30-plus RBR counts and nice thick snout banding! Indeed true Guatemalan(abnorma) milksnakes.

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

If you find yourse3lf getting too worked up about it, just drink until it doesn't bother you.
It's what I do.
-----
We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

very nice snake you got there.
-----
Chris - TX

2.2 Splendida
1.1 Nigrita
1.1 Ruthveni
0.0.3 277 Alterna