Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a 6 month old pueblan that I am fully commited to trying everything I can to get him to reach adulthood. My problem is this. He has no feeding response to anythng I have tried. I have tried pinkies (live and f/t, washed to remove it's scent). I have tried pinkies that have been brained, pinkies scented wth anoles, fence lizards, bull frog, tree frogs, skinks. So then I offered the intended prey items without the pinkie. I have offered chorus frogs, bull frog tadpoles, skinks, anoles, fence lizards, hatchling corn snakes. I have tried mouse tails. I have tried button quail chicks, I cannot get him to take anything on his own. All the above mentioned items were of appropriate size nothing that would be too much of an effort to eat. I made the decision to force feed and have force fed him every week for nearly 4 months. I don't suspect digestive issues...he digests well and has a 5 week shed cycle so I think that's a good rate of growth. I have tried exercising him by having him swim in a bathtub several times a week..hoping that the force feeding and the exercise.. and the growth rate would eventually trigger an increased appetite and a feeding response. I have offered meals at night, in a deli cup..in a paper bag..on a moist paper towel, on a dry paper towel...near his hide...in his hide, in a seperate container..in a small container where he is in direct contact with the intended meal. Nothing. I don't know what else to try. My problem now is that he is growing and tht make it harder to restrain him to force feed safely. What else can I try? What other prey item should I try? Could I try a feeder fish, or scent a pinkie with cricket guts? I live iin The southeast and I know that anoles and fence lizards are not typically on the pueblan diet, but I don't have access to uta lizards or other species of lizards that I might try .
Should I brumate him for a month or two in hopes that when I warm him up he will feed?
I am out of ideas and need some advice.

With all that you have tried so far, I can't offer many more ideas to be quite honest other than an attempt at "tease" feeding to see if it will grab it then swallow it down if you hold very still. Otherwise I would go ahead and cool the snake down into the high 50's to low 60's for a good while, and when it warms back up, you may find that it's feeding response has been triggered by the cooling and warming events. If it still has substantial body weight, things should be quite alright with cooling it down for a while. This often has great results for many snakes that don't want to feed at all.

Good luck!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Yes, I would give brumation a shot. It cannot hurt anything at this point and obviously the snake has been getting nutrition if growing/shedding. Give it a cool down for a month or so and see if that jump starts the feeding response. Make sure you give it about 10 days to 2 weeks without feeding to make sure its last force fed meal has been digested and its system is clear. Also, check your set up. Make sure the snake has good tight hides and the cage isnt too large. Sometimes if the snake is in too large a cage and does not have sufficient hides, they stress. Also, keep handling to a minimum with the tub swims, etc. until feeding regularly.

on all counts!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Cooling often does wonders. So can humidity. Is the ambient humidity dry? If so, read on.

If you want, before you cool, keep the heat on and put alot of damp sphagnum in the cage, warm end.

Baby milks dehydrate alot quicker than adults. They are moisture-loss sensitive and will often not feed in that condition.

A successful breeder from the 80s tipped me off about the humidity affect on baby graybands, thayeri, ruthveni, etc. He saw a marked reduction in the number of hatchlings he had to force feed.

Of course there will be baby snakes that are problematic no matter what. But Puebs are usually pretty tough, so don't give up. Focus more on the environment than what scent you are using. A wide temp range and ample humidity on the warm end is best. Nightime lows are helpful too sometimes. You know, Spring conditions. If that doesn't work, cool the snake.
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Mark

I will try increasing the ambient humidity. I hadn't really given much thought to that as a factor. His sister is kept in her own enclosure under the same conditions..same temps and temp gradient same overall humidity and she never misses a meal. He does have access to a water dish that is big enough for complete submersion and is changed daily. I'll give increasing the humidity a shot. That seems the only thing short of brumation left to try.
So you think the food being offered is fine? Out of all those items there should be something he responds to?
I was concerned that maybe I still wasn't offering the trigger item that would solve all of this?

Thanks so much for your advice everyone. I REALLY aprecciate it.

Yes, sometimes the right food items are offered, but the wrong environment situation(s) remain and can prevent them from feeding voluntarily, and of course sometimes the right environment is given with the wrong food items..LOL!

You sort of just have to tackle the most likely issues first until you hopefully find the problem.

good luck!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Water bowls are useless for that - a baby snake can dehydrate even if surrounded by water bowls. They need humidity, or water loss prevention, as opposed to standing water. Not saying you shouldn't have water, just saying the snake can still dehydrate. In nature, these snakes do not seek puddles to soak in. They prevent water loss by other methods. Point is, the baby snake may not know to soak itself.

Not all babies react the exact same way. A single condition environmentally is not always reacted to the exact same way.

Of course, the issue may not have to do with humidity at all, but it is a safe and easy thing to try. No harm will be done at all. Baby milks love it. Just do it and see if anything changes.

Could be the snake has something wrong with it internally, could be it will simply start feeding in time, could be low humidity, etc etc. You have exhausted the food choice avenue with no change in the snake's behavior, so your best bet is to change direction.
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Mark

How large is your enclosure? In my experience, milks tend to prefer smaller, tighter caging, in direct contrast to advice given in some popular publications. They have evolved to live in secrecy and in close quarters. I have 250 /- truangulum' and nearly every one I have given a "spacious" enclosure has gone off feed. For a small campbelli, I would recommend something no larger than 4" x 6" for a problem feeder. I also suggest keeping your interaction to a minimum. Neonate milks stress easily. Also be mindful of the temperature. Shoot for a hot spot around 88*F.

As for prey species, it sounds like you're running the gamut. Note, though, that Anolis are seldom accepted by triangulum... Even lizard feeders. Sceloporus are a great choice, but you will have the best luck with skinks and Hemidactylus geckos.

To recap: keep it warm, don't handle it, and keep it in a small tub. Overall, I tend to agree with the other replies.

-Cole

His enclsure is about 12"x12" with a tight hide on the warm side.. high 80's and another hide on the cool side at low 70's.
I will try a smaller enclosure and higher humidity. How does one get hemidactylus geckos? I have tried southern five lined skinks and scincella "little brown skink" with no luck. Is there another prey species I might also look into?

You all have been so helpful and I would like to thank you for your pointers and helpful analysis!

I am at the point that I would keep a pet gecko just for the purpose of rubbing it on a pinkie. What are some thoughts on this? Are there any geckos normally found at pet shops etc. that might be a good choice or do I need to try to track down someone who has Hemidagtylus?

just plain old Med House Geckos work pretty darn good.

L8r

Hemidactylus is a genus commonly known as the "House Geckos". If you're in the right area of the Southeast, you can probaby harvest them from the wild for free (there's populations all the way from TX to FL). They seem to smell more "lizardy" to some snakes.

-Cole

That is strange. Never had a campbell that stubborn. Big or neonate, leaving them overnight with a df rodent usually works.
Container must be small, covered, and paper product. No plastic or styro. Leave container inside its own enclosure. Also used mouse shavings from pet store will turn their lights on. Place rodent on small coffee cover or cardboard and leave overnight.
They're very good escape artist, so container within container works best. I've never had to use lizards or scented, except when I bred alternas. Sold all alternas because I got fed up with their feeding responses.