Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What is this?
Before I picked him up, the owner sent me a picture of an Arizona Mountain king saying that's basically what he looks like.. which he does for the most part, except he's very gray and doesn't have the black "mask" marking.
Are there certain things I can look for to help me identify him - like scale numbers or patterns or pattern traits that only certain species have?
Thanks

Maybe the thayeri experts should chime in on this one. To my highly untrained eyes the snake doesn't look pure pyro. Probably MSP thayeri? Or pyro X thayeri? Either way it looks a bit thin as weel.

reako45

i can see how some pyro aesthetics are in this snake...but i think there is some mexicana/thayeri in it...so maybe a hybrid?
if so...run!

well, to me he looks like an old (does he have cataracts?) thayeri X pyro or similar cross/hybrid...
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

Yeah, I say "MSP" thayeri x pyro as well. Head looks really odd-shaped like an intermediate of the two as well.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

>>well, to me he looks like an old (does he have cataracts?) thayeri X pyro or similar cross/hybrid...

You're right Mark....It looks like an old snake.....
The dimpled scales and foggy eyes (cataracts).......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Mostly Thayeri but there is some Pyro in the mix............Maybe even some Greeri too............You never know.......LMAO
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

>>Are there certain things I can look for to help me identify him - like scale numbers or patterns or pattern traits that only certain species have?
>>Thanks

The first thing that threw it off from being a true thayeri is the head shape itself, along with the head pattern.......
You can do scale counts on the ventrals but there it's ventral counts can fall in between both of the species or subspecies used to create this animal......Same goes fro Subcaudals.

I bet its ventral scale counts are around 200 - 214.......That is average for Thayeri....I don't know the average ventral scale counts for a pyro unless I look it up......

If you decide to breed this animal please be honest to anyone that gets offspring and tell them that one of their parents are an unknown cross/hybrid/intergrade....lol

It could very well by a ruthveni X pyro too.....who knows...
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

He looks like part thayeri milksnake phase and part pyro...but I am not expert so am just guessing...
Whatever he is, he looks to be in very poor condition and needs some TLC. Even a very old snake should not look that thin.
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Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

Yeah, I agree. That poor snake has had a "rough road". Too bad many people neglect the animal's THEN decide to get rid of them after they ignore and neglect them for a good long while. It would be great if these owner's sold them well BEFORE this ever happened.

Anyway, to the OP,.......yes, it sure could use some TLC as mentioned and a decent feeding regimen for getting it's weight back up to par.

Also, may I suggest never breeding it either..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

When you see it, you just leaver-right where you found it!!