Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Been thinking about this, and the following is how I would do it if it were my choice.

Have a section for all forms of a given genus. IE king snakes would be ALL alterna, mexicana, triangulum, zonata, getula, caligaster (I think thats it. This classification would include specific crosses between any form of Lampropeltis the logic being that a zonata x caligaster cross would still be a king snake (I picked that example to see how Jerry reacts!)

Same for Pituophis, Pantherophis (choke cough spit)......

Next have a classification for hybrids. Hybrid would be defined as any type of trans generic breedings. IE getula X pantherophis

Lastly I'd have a section just for local specific animals. This section would be equally for 277 alterna, Ocean County NJ northern pines, pungo ridge eastern kings ........

Just how I'd do it.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

WWW.TDSNAKES.BLOGSPOT.COM

I like those ideas. The locality section would be a good new feature.

Don't give Jerry a hard time. If it turns out he likes zonata x calligaster, that is his right.
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Mark

I like it! I like it a lot!

Been thinking about this, and the following is how I would do it if it were my choice.

Just how I'd do it.

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www.Bluerosy.com

While I do think that your idea is a good one for a seller, as a buyer (like I am most the time) I would hate it. I hated having to sift through all the cal king and other king ads if I wanted to find a milk snake. Also, Lord, if I wanted to see if someone made a post for L. z. agalma it was like trying to find a vein of gold in the desert! Right now the classifieds have never been better (once again, as a buyer). The sections are grouped into the major groupings by which we divide our own herps. If I want to buy a milk snake I love the fact that I don't have to see any ads for kingsnakes. It takes a back click and a click on the kingsnake link to see kingsnakes; this leaves me free from the frustration of having to read all the individual posts and separate out the group I don't want.

Just my 2 cents! Cheers.

Mitch

It is easy to find exactly what you want the way it is......
And I would have no problem posting ads the way it is set up....and most shouldn't either.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

How many of you guys go to a show and think that the only enjoyable time spent there was when you found what you went there looking for?

I go on the classifieds all the time and sometimes I'm just looking to see what's there, whats moving and what if anything is new under the sun. Sometimes I see a losting from someone I haven't seen or heard from in awhile and drop them a line. If the only reason people go to the classifieds is to buy a specific animal people have in mind there is no opertunity for them to look at what else is avaliable.

Don't get me wrong I like the new classifications as a shopper too but there needs to be a balance. Sellers need views to make sales which keep them renewing their accounts. If views and sales decrease and breeders stop remewing accounts.....your experience as a shopper wont be worth a poop!

The answer to all this is quite obvious and Jeff eluded to it some time back. Its going to be interesting to see if he does what I think he has in mind.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

WWW.TDSNAKES.BLOGSPOT.COM

I am in total agreement also. It has never been so easy to look through the classifieds. Love it the way things are now.

Unless you want a generic milk (which most of are intergrades) why would you want to sift through posts to find soemeone who has them. It might help people start breeding for purity.

I think by having a locality specific forum. It would open the doors to a whole new world for herpetocultuirists. And KS could further the hobby in that way.

..and that is what most of the posts here in this forum are about... locality, locality, locality. Which also equals= purity. That is what everybody posts about. So why would one want to sift through generic kings and milks?

Personally I woould love to see some locale specific Fl king, Cal kings, splendida. etc Same with milks with lacality data.
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www.Bluerosy.com

A locality specific forum would be a welcomed addition, but some will start arguments at F2.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

I think the only guy I ever saw argue that F2s weren't "locality" animals just got banned.

As far as I'm concerned, "locality" just indicates where the parent stock originated. We are hobbyists, no zoologists. We see something we like and we keep it and breed it.

As far as I'm concerned, "locality" just indicates where the parent stock originated. We are hobbyists, no zoologists. We see something we like and we keep it and breed it.

I agree with that as staement well. I never thought F2's would ever come into question. Nor F3, F4's ect!

I don't understand why f2's were even brought up. Sometimes kicking against the gourds for arguements sake gets nothing done.
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www.Bluerosy.com

In my mind local specific only denotes a clear pedigree to wc stock.

From there it breaks down and means differnt things to different keepers. How big was the founding local, are the animals after a few gens of selective breeding any longer representative of the original population...... Those are questions best answered and agreed to prior to a sale trade gift between local enthesiests.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

WWW.TDSNAKES.BLOGSPOT.COM

"As far as I'm concerned, "locality" just indicates where the parent stock originated"

I could not agree MORE! That is EXACTLY what it means,....nothing more, nothing less!

Many people will argue just about anything, but all "locality" really means is that is where the parent stock originated.......period!. It has nothing to do with the offspring looking like identical "carbon copies". After all, no two snakes from any locale are identical to begin with.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

Many people will argue just about anything, but all "locality" really means is that is where the parent stock originated.......period!. It has nothing to do with the offspring looking like identical "carbon copies". After all, no two snakes from any locale are identical to begin with.

~Doug

agreed!
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www.Bluerosy.com

I have to agree with Rainer that the majority of the posts here are of locality animals. A Locality forum/classified would be great, the only downfall would be as John mentioned they would be questioned at F2 by some. I have also read that some people out there have questioned the original caught animals as intergrades as it wasn't a natural selection.
I am the one to question lineage as well and the whole story behind specific animals. Certain species/subspecies are great for locality, but there are some that locality has been pushed to the wayside. For example L.p.knoblochi.Trying to find locality specific animals is like finding a diamond in the ruff. So, in this case we can only follow lineage of the animals and the story behind them. Would this classify as locality if you knew who was the original importer but didn't have specific GPS coordinates or would it be a generic? Just my thoughts and opinions.

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Jimmy Tintle

>>I have to agree with Rainer that the majority of the posts here are of locality animals. A Locality forum/classified would be great, the only downfall would be as John mentioned they would be questioned at F2 by some. I have also read that some people out there have questioned the original caught animals as intergrades as it wasn't a natural selection.
>> I am the one to question lineage as well and the whole story behind specific animals. Certain species/subspecies are great for locality, but there are some that locality has been pushed to the wayside. For example L.p.knoblochi.Trying to find locality specific animals is like finding a diamond in the ruff. So, in this case we can only follow lineage of the animals and the story behind them. Would this classify as locality if you knew who was the original importer but didn't have specific GPS coordinates or would it be a generic? Just my thoughts and opinions.
>>
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>>Jimmy Tintle

We run into this in the Mexicana part of the hobby all the time Jimmy......All we can do is trace back our animals to reputable breeders that did not compromise the species or subspecies with another........Thayeri breeders have gone to this system. We have Lemke, Applegate, Sipperly, Vermilya, Gebhard, Hammack, Barker, Torres, etc.....stock.......
Only a few Mexican Kings/Milks have locality information....mainly due to the fact that it was so damn long ago when we could go down to Mexico, catch a snake then bring it back Legally.........

And when talking about Knoblochi folks mention Mountain ranges like the Tarahumara or Chihuahua or another......Those aren't localities........Those mountain ranges cover many locales.
I know you know this Jimmy I was just rambling.......LOL
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

We run into this in the Mexicana part of the hobby all the time Jimmy......All we can do is trace back our animals to reputable breeders that did not compromise the species or subspecies with another........Thayeri breeders have gone to this system. We have Lemke, Applegate, Sipperly, Vermilya, Gebhard, Hammack, Barker, Torres, etc.....stock.......
Only a few Mexican Kings/Milks have locality information....mainly due to the fact that it was so damn long ago when we could go down to Mexico, catch a snake then bring it back Legally.........

And when talking about Knoblochi folks mention Mountain ranges like the Tarahumara or Chihuahua or another......Those aren't localities........Those mountain ranges cover many locales.
I know you know this Jimmy I was just rambling.......LOL

all those would fall under the generic catagory.

That is what makes a locality specific forum so special. Not all can be included. And the ones that are makes them that much more special. I know of a few people that have spcific locality data on milks and that should make the hobbiest searching for those easier and make those snakes more valuable to them.

I think that someone that has not outcrossed locales for generations should be rewarded for keeping those snakes pure. Few people do. And this would just open the hobby up to more selections besides the generic king, ,milk or ratsnake. Most of those localigty snakes are not great looking. But what people want are some true blooded locales and not snakes from 100 miles, 50 miles or even 1 mile apart.

Take cal kings for example. A striped cal king from san diego bred into a central calif hypo (palomar ghost) to create striped ghosts is just as far away as an intergrade in my book.
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www.Bluerosy.com

I understand Rainer, and I would have to agree with you on locality and generic, but the question comes into play is 50 ft between collecting 2 specimens to much? Or where would be the cutoff point of making it local vs. generic come in? Collecting a distinct county, town, or even a certain field?
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Jimmy Tintle

>>We run into this in the Mexicana part of the hobby all the time Jimmy......All we can do is trace back our animals to reputable breeders that did not compromise the species or subspecies with another........Thayeri breeders have gone to this system. We have Lemke, Applegate, Sipperly, Vermilya, Gebhard, Hammack, Barker, Torres, etc.....stock.......
>>Only a few Mexican Kings/Milks have locality information....mainly due to the fact that it was so damn long ago when we could go down to Mexico, catch a snake then bring it back Legally.........
>>
>>And when talking about Knoblochi folks mention Mountain ranges like the Tarahumara or Chihuahua or another......Those aren't localities........Those mountain ranges cover many locales.
>>I know you know this Jimmy I was just rambling.......LOL
>>
>>
>>all those would fall under the generic catagory.
>>
>>That is what makes a locality specific forum so special. Not all can be included. And the ones that are makes them that much more special. I know of a few people that have spcific locality data on milks and that should make the hobbiest searching for those easier and make those snakes more valuable to them.
>>
>>I think that someone that has not outcrossed locales for generations should be rewarded for keeping those snakes pure. Few people do. And this would just open the hobby up to more selections besides the generic king, ,milk or ratsnake. Most of those localigty snakes are not great looking. But what people want are some true blooded locales and not snakes from 100 miles, 50 miles or even 1 mile apart.
>>
>>Take cal kings for example. A striped cal king from san diego bred into a central calif hypo (palomar ghost) to create striped ghosts is just as far away as an intergrade in my book.
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>>www.Bluerosy.com
>>
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

I agree with your disagreement Mitch. But I think the objection could be overcome with a search feature, which if employed would make any classification unnessesary.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

WWW.TDSNAKES.BLOGSPOT.COM

Ohhhh Tony, I've made a concerted effort to avoid the ol' vat of quicksand forum...but you definitely struck a nerve there. See you in the spring.....and I didn't know that Beaufort Cnty easterns were so nice. If that's the norm from what I see in the above thread, then I might take in an extra day to poke around this spring as i will be there.

Pardon me, gotta go collect some sheds to square a coupe things away. See you in the spring...
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Jerry Kruse
www.zonatas.com

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

That sounds o.k. to me Tony....I have to wonder though...was it THAT BAD to begin with?
I mean, it makes you wonder how some can navigate to the corner store if they can't figure out the classifieds by themselves....

:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

LOL! Very true. I didn't think there was anything wronng and can deal with how it is now. I was just sayin how I would do it.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

WWW.TDSNAKES.BLOGSPOT.COM