Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi All,
Yes, another question...

I was wondering if anyone can give me feedback on what they would choose either a Black Pastel Pewter or a Cinny Pastel Pewter? Say both are prices exactly the same.

My small snake collection should be listed at the bottom and all are as listed except the Super Pastel .1 might be a normal pastel.

Thanks for your time and input, Paige
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1.1 cinnamons, 1.1 pastels, .1 mojave, 1. spider, 1.1 super pastel, .3 normals, 1. lesser, .1 black pastel, .1 pinstripe .1 rosy boa, 1.1 gophers, 2.1 kids, 1. hubby and a bunch of other animals

I prefer Cinnies, especially those with a black back. However, I would prefer a Black Pastel if it was a Liesen Line because their contrast is so nice (not to mention he has discovered a little something extra going on there).
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Lincoln, NE
0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly
2.1 Normals, 1.0 Thayeri, 0.1 Thayeri X Alterna, 0.1 Whitesided P. catenifer sayi, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

Thanks, I actually prefer the way a Cinny looks when it is combined with the Pastel. But it seems the Black Pastel Pewter seems to be more expensive or at least specified more when talking about the Pewters.

I am fairly new to the morphs so not sure what happens when mixed with other morphs beyond the basics. Slowly learning it as morphs are constantly evolving and becoming more exotic!!!

I was recently told by one of my friends, a breeder, that the Black Pastel creates more of a duck billed snake then the Cinny does. I know we are talking about the Super Forms of the Cinny and Black Pastel. Have you heard anything like that?

V/R Paige
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1.1 cinnamons, 1.1 pastels, .1 mojave, 1. spider, 1.1 super pastel, .3 normals, 1. lesser, .1 black pastel, .1 pinstripe .1 rosy boa, 1.1 gophers, 2.1 kids, 1. hubby and a bunch of other animals

The Female Cinn I am breeding is getting bred by a male Black Pewter and a male Woma. I did quite a bit of research on the duckbilling issue and what I got was:

Duckbilling is most common when breeding two individuals that are somewhat related (daughter-father, grandmother-grandson, etc). This certainly makes sense.

It is more common when breeding two individuals of the same morph, but almost unheard of if the two are from different lines of the same morph.

No one has heard of a duckbilled baby from a Black Pastel X Cinnamon breeding. Or, at least, when I polled people on the forums no one said they had.
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Lincoln, NE
0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly
2.1 Normals, 1.0 Thayeri, 0.1 Thayeri X Alterna, 0.1 Whitesided P. catenifer sayi, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

Thanks!!! Great info to know!!! None of my girls bl pastel or cinny are old enough to breed so not that lucky! Good luck on getting a Super!! What color would it be? V/R Paige
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1.1 cinnamons, 1.1 pastels, .1 mojave, 1. spider, 1.1 super pastel, .3 normals, 1. lesser, .1 black pastel, .1 pinstripe .1 rosy boa, 1.1 gophers, 2.1 kids, 1. hubby and a bunch of other animals

The Black Pastel X Cinny Super looks more like a Black Pastel Super to me. It is very dark, more black than brown.

I am hoping for a Super for sure! I've always wanted one. A Silver Bullet would, of course, make me weak in the knees. But I am trying not to hope that much since she hasn't even ovulated yet

Plus, it could be just my luck that she finally takes with my male Woma instead. Cinn Womas would be fun too but...
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Lincoln, NE
0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly
2.1 Normals, 1.0 Thayeri, 0.1 Thayeri X Alterna, 0.1 Whitesided P. catenifer sayi, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

I am just hoping for some eggs!! Lol. I bought my incubator last summer and haven't even had to warm it up !! I got some breeders male and female but so far nothing. Yes, that Silver Bullet that Lady Ohh is selling is gorgeous!!!! Good luck getting one of those. : ). Cinny woma would be kick butt too!! I just want to see a baby hatch!!
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1.1 cinnamons, 1.1 pastels, .1 mojave, 1. spider, 1.1 super pastel, .3 normals, 1. lesser, .1 black pastel, .1 pinstripe .1 rosy boa, 1.1 gophers, 2.1 kids, 1. hubby and a bunch of other animals

i'm going to contradict something said earlier.

even if from different lines, cinny x cinny can and will give you horribly kinked babies - animals that will die. i went through this and posted pics and commentary on this awhile back.

what i have found in situations where aberrations happen, is that very few breeders speak out. so bad information can go unchallenged. this is understandable to a point as no one wants potential buyers to think they have "bad stock".

all i can say is if you breed cinny to cinny, no matter what lines, you are rolling the dice and might be forced with to deal with some ethical questions as a result - what if it's badly kinked but seems like it might live - will you keep those offspring taking up rack space for 30 years? what if it's only mildly kinked - will you breed it? etc. it's just not worth it. breed cinny to black pastel.

Cinny X cinny resulted in some very kinked babies. How many separate clutches from this combo produced babies with this malformation? Were any of those babies also duckbilled?

What is your experience with breeding Black Pastel to Black Pastel? Rate/number of clutches with kinking and/or duckbilling?

Have you EVER heard of the Black Pastel X Cinny combo producing kinked or duckbilled young?
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Lincoln, NE
0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly
2.1 Normals, 1.0 Thayeri, 0.1 Thayeri X Alterna, 0.1 Whitesided P. catenifer sayi, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

Cinny X cinny resulted in some very kinked babies. How many separate clutches from this combo produced babies with this malformation? Were any of those babies also duckbilled?

i bred two clutches during the same year - both gals gave me badly kinked babies. i had 4 supers, 3 died, the other i still have and he is thriving well. he has one minor kink. i don't remember the exact number, but of course there were normals and cinnies in the clutches as well - all those were perfect in every way; just the supers were deformed. i don't think they were duckbilled, though i think thats a very subjective thing as visually snakes that lack contrasting colors in that outer lip region "look" different, but are not always actually different - you can see the photos if you search my posts.

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What is your experience with breeding Black Pastel to Black Pastel? Rate/number of clutches with kinking and/or duckbilling?

i have no experience with black pastels, but have read enough to not want to try it. it seems to me the consensus is to mix the two for optimal results. as i said it's hard to get a very clear picture here as not enough people are willing to come on and report their failed breedings - mostly you hear about the success stories and it's easy to think thats the high %, when in actuality it may not be.

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Have you EVER heard of the Black Pastel X Cinny combo producing kinked or duckbilled young?

i have not - but it does not mean it has not happened. both cinnies and black pastels are SO COMMON - and i'm sure many have been down this road. it'd be great if a bunch of folks responded to this thread with their experience(s) and helped create a more solid consensus on this.

Thank you very much, I appreciate your input.
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Lincoln, NE
0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly
2.1 Normals, 1.0 Thayeri, 0.1 Thayeri X Alterna, 0.1 Whitesided P. catenifer sayi, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

bolitochrome, you're very welcome. best of luck with all your projects this season!

I really appreciate you coming forward to tell me that!! It stops me from breeding my cinnies together. That is something we all need to know because that is a quality of life changer. You are right 30 years is a long time to keep a kinked snake which I would think would have medical problems down the line.
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1.1 cinnamons, 1.1 pastels, .1 mojave, 1. spider, 1.1 super pastel, .3 normals, 1. lesser, .1 black pastel, .1 pinstripe .1 rosy boa, 1.1 gophers, 2.1 kids, 1. hubby and a bunch of other animals