Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Okay, so I've cleared a portion of my basement for the new monitor enclosure. The tentative dimensions are as follows: 10'Lx6'Hx4'D. The six-foot height will allow for three feet of soil for burrowing. I was planning on building this in two pieces so that it is able to be moved, since I rent.

I've never built anything this large before, and so my questions begin:

Construction:

Would a 2x4 frame suffice?
Should I use 2x6s for the base which will need to support approximately 120sq.ft. of soil?
Can I use 1/2" plywood on the sides and 3/4" for the base?

Electric:

Help a girl out, I don't want to burn my house down. Is this a relatively simple project that a handy person with common sense can do? How do you set up multiple basking lights without having a million cords hanging all over the place?

Viewing:

I'm not sure how I want to do this yet. Any ideas to share?

Thanks for all of your help, I appreciate it!

What species and how many will be housed in the cage?
Bob

Ahh, good point. Sorry I forgot to mention that. One savannah monitor. With the possibility of adding another sav depending on what I find at the upcoming reptile show and if they tolerate each other in this enclosure.

Them dudes get pretty beastly, if your getting a baby to start with I would house it in a smaller cheaper cage and upsize when needed, sometimes our long term plans get side tracked and from an economical standpoint you maybe better off doing this? I always go through about 3-4 different cages with raising a baby kimberly rock monitor from a starter to an adult cage.
Bob

I currently have one, she's in a 4'x3'x2' enclosure and it's already too small for her after just a couple of months. If I'm going to build another cage I'd rather put up a few more bucks and build the largest one I can afford.

I love your enthusiasm, and that large cage will be great. Few things to consider though, 120 cubic feet of dirt is A LOT of dirt. Moving in about 8 cubic feet for my ackie was enough work for me! (Maybe I'm just lazy) Might I suggest instead of doing a 3 foot deep substrate in the entire cage, have it lower on one side and higher on the other, creating a slop. It would give plenty of room to burrow and add extra temp graduates. For heating, your gonna want to limit your air flow in the cage to just a few vents. That way you keep the heat in. If placed in just the right place, a single lamp can do great. My 5 foot by 3 foot by 2 foot tall cage is entirely heating by a single 100 watt bulb. A toasty 120-130 basking to a cool 80 degrees on the cool side. And regarding the second sav, be careful and watch them carefully when you introduce them. If they don't get along, your either gonna need a separate cage or find it a new home. Two 10 foot cages is a lot of space! Hope this helps!
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Jason

Hey, thanks for your suggestions! I actually thought of sloping the soil, too. I sort of had a mind to pack the back two corners, the rear wall, and slope it toward the front where the water basin (a concrete mixing tub) would sit suspended a few inches off the substrate. As it sits on a slope, he can crawl in from the back or hide beneath it on the sides. And since it will be in front of the enclosure I can easily get to it for frequent water changes. Thanks to Mike H. for the suspended water basin idea!

As for attempting to find another Sav, I'll definitely introduce them slowly, carefully, over a period of time. If they tolerate each other, great. If they don't, I can build another slightly smaller enclosure, probably 8'x4'x4' using a stock tank.

Sloping the dirt does not work, the monitors will just move it as they wish.

Also, how you introduce one is simply put it in and see what happens. I really don't know what folks are thinking, but in most cases, nothing happens. They just bob and jerk around.

To determine if they get along takes time. If they don't, one will just waste away as the stress takes its toll. This is the most common result of not getting along. ITs not a war type of thing.

Also, you cannot simply seperate them if they argue a little. Its what they do. And its very rare one attempts to kill the other. Remember they are animals, what we call fighting is what we call TALKING. Nipping, and such is mere discussion. If they want to kill, its a whole different thing.

Consider, the worse thing you can do is interfere by taking out and back in, and out etc etc. Or putting them together in a neutral area. Those type of things DO NOTHING. They can only make it worse. The point is, they have to settle out, in their home, that is what is meaningful.

ALso Savs, are not a dangerous species. That is, they have short round tiny teeth, so arguing does little damage. Other species have long razor sharp, serated teeth, so even a little discussion can leave lasting memories.

So there is very little need to worry, just do it. The most common problem you may have is, you will end up with a whole group of males that love eachother.

I once had a group of three male argus, We called them the three amigos. As they got along so well and hung out all the time. Where ever one went, the other went. They were in a cage thats 20' by 20' so they could be apart if they wanted, they never wanted.

What was even funnier was, if something new was in the cage, one male would also lead the pack to see what it was. That group was more fun that you could imagine.

In my experience, females do not get along with eachother as well as males. Somethings are consistant across the animal world, hahahahahahhahaha Its true with larger monitors, the females are timid, but indeed control the colony or group.

Thanks again for your insight. I guess I neglected to think about her landscaping preferences.

I guess if I see a sav that I like who is of a similar size, I'll bring him home and see what happens. If one or both begin deteriorating over a period of time, I'll separate them entirely and that'll be the end of my experiment.

This is what worries me. You have a plan, which is very good, build a large cage, put monitors in it. Simple. Do it.

If you see another sav about the same size, but appears a little different, then you have a shot at a different sex. Go for it.

Heres the deal, male savs are much larger then females, females, should be dropping eggs at about 20 inches long, TOTAL LENGHT. Males will develop red eyes. Females don't. Males will have wide shoulders and narrow hips, unless obese. Females tend to have wide hips and narrow shoulders.

Take a guess and go for it. You are female, yes? then use you feelings, I am sure you will have a very strong feeling about what sex is what. Which I think is far more accurate then other methods of guessing. Remember, you can only miss by one. There is only two sides to this coin. Male or female.

Anyway, no need to make all manner of plans for failure, Go for it with plans to succeed. Succeeding takes work, to fail is simple and easy, work at it, do not plan to fail.

ALso, if all your going to do is one attempt, then forget about it. Normally we that succeed, fail a lot first.

There was another wonderful lady that came here a while back, she had doubts about her attempts at keeping monitors. We talked on the phone, and I eased her fears. I said, are you going to try hard to keep these animals healthy and living. She said yes, I then asked what do you think going to happen to them if you do not get them? she said, they will die. Thats the answer, they are destined to die, if your going to put an effort to prevent that, then do it. If they die in your care, thats what would have occured anyway. Hmmmmmm Sad, but true. Remember, you are not taking them from nature, your taking them for a petshop. Where they will die.(again, numbers)

That you are willing to build that cage tells me, your going to put forth an effort, which most do not. GO for it. And if your not female, go for it anyway. hahahahahaha sorry but I don't pay attention as to what sex the posters are.

My goal for keeping these lizards is to give them as much of a LIFE as possible- that is, one full of enrichment, not merely existing in a box full of dirt. They are incredibly intelligent creatures, I am drawn to them for a number of reasons.

I ended up with the one I have because they are frequently listed on the Craigslist in my area. Often by teenagers who "can no longer keep them." It seems they lost their cute factor. They're ALL the same. Around two years old, nearing the two feet mark, dehydrated, thin, improperly fed, and otherwise inadequately cared for. All "tame." Tame because they are too sick to fight back.

Just yesterday I expected to be bringing another monitor home after it was offered for free to someone who could help. He was housed in a wire small animal cage and fell from an upper level, breaking two of his toes. I made a huge effort to pick him up. When I had enough of the e-mail runaround I asked for a number and called. It was some ghetto moron who couldn't even talk for two seconds because his buddies were in the background playing. He said he'd call back in a few minutes. He didn't. Less than twenty-four hours later, he texted me to say the lizard died since he "must have been sick." I am disgusted and appalled. But this happens all the time because people are stupid and animals are disposable.

Jooaks
I don't want to steal my Brother's (Mike H) thunder.
The enclosure your speaking of was the one I bred my Jobiensis in.

Mike H is a tree boa guy, some of the nicest in the country!!
I think I may have had an influence on him.
He then got his Bosc, and has done a great job with it.
I just wish he would pair it up all ready! Hint hint Brother

Mike
SWWC 4 LIFE!

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Mike's Monitors!

J
Another problem with sloping the substrate is keeping these areas moist causes the lower levels to be soaked.
Mike
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Mike's Monitors!

Mike,

Yes, I forgot to mention, he said you built his enclosure. Sorry for not bringing that key fact to light as well. So to you, kudos!

And excellent point regarding the slope. I absolutely had not thought of that. Back to the drawing board for me.

Any suggestions for my enclosure? Particularly regarding wiring the lights? In my current enclosure, I have clamp lamps inside the cage and they take up way too much space.

If your not familar with wiring and electricity, then find someone who is. Or go to homedepot or the like, and find a book on the basics. Then wander around the lite fixture section.

Consider, if you follow someones instructions on this forum and burn your house down. It would not be a good thing. So do some actual research, then either learn how to do it, or have someone do it.

I like a cage that I can move the heating lamps where they are needed, TO predict where they should be, only leads to failure. So I put in simple wall outlets high in the cage, and you can plug in anything you like or is needed at the time, and these things do change. The key to cage building is, do not wall yourself in. A good box, with the ability to move things in and out. To be able to change as needed. And be resistant to moisture, to hold deep substrate. That is what is important.

For big cages, to mount the lites high is a disaster. I try to use a hanging log with outdoor fixtures fixed to the bottom. I use a chain and hooks so I can move the lite bar up or down as needed. Good luck

Frank do you have any photos of the hanging logs with affixed lightly-that's the direction i want to go.This thread has helped tremedously in my planning-thanks everybody.also what are your thoughts, my cage will be 7' high-would you go with 2' or 3' substrate thanks Moe

Jo
I use all types of light fixtures.
Lets take Mike H's enclosure for example.
I used indoor/outdoor flood light fixtures.
These can be directed in just about any direction you want.
The lights you can see are mounted on the top so my Monitors could not get burned by climbing on them.
The box to the right serves two purposes, one a warm basking shelf (a favorite spot), and two it created a basking spot under the box (botton screened in).
My female Jobiensis would lay her eggs in just about the same spot each time, this nesting area was only a few inches away from this light box.

I hate looking at lights and domes in my enclosures, so that visable fixture drove me nuts!
I now hide them behind silk foliage.
Good luck!
Mike

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Mike's Monitors!

heres some in situ cages I built in our facility.

this is commonly refered to as stick built. 2x4 construction.

Its 2x4's OBS, lined with FRP. using slider windows for the door. I hope this helps.

The bottom row has a two foot deep substrate zone made of poured concrete. The bottom row also has outdoor units that the monitors can use through a metal door.

I have seen some of these pics before. So how deep is the substrate at the top and how are you supporting the weight of that? Or are the top cages conneted to the bottom?....I love the views from inside showing out or vise versa..i am hoping to build something like that one day...so many quetions about those....another timme i guess.

Scott
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Scott
"The most powerful person never has to use it"

The top cages only hold about 6inches of substrate, they are basically raise up cages or holding cages.

That explains alot thank you
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Scott
"The most powerful person never has to use it"

Yes, it did help, thank you. The 2x4 construction was what I was going for.

If I may ask, how does one go about setting up the basking lights so that they are wired into the enclosure? I see people who have the outdoor floodlights hooked up through the walls and ceiling. Is there a way to do this without having those blue electric boxes outside of each fixture on the other side of the plywood? She's small enough that I could probably fit a good four or five basking sites of varying temps.