Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Would it be possible for a brown roughneck to breed with a black roughneck, just as Australian monitors have interbred? I currently have a brown roughneck and was curious if it has been tried before and found that they were compatible or incompatible, or if it hasn't tried.

Hi, have they discovered a new species? Can you tell me the difference between a "Brown rough neck" and a "Black" one (V. rudicollis), and give the sub species latin name?

Stefan,the Dumerills is sometimes called the Brown Roughneck

Greg
-----
1.1 Varanus Rudicollis
2.0.3 Varanus jobiesis
0.0.1 Ornate box turtle
0.1 Varanus Salvidorii
0.0.2 Varanus Salvator

Thankls for that Greg. I know that, the poster asked if he could breed them, of course he can, they`re one and the same species (as I`m sure you already know)!

I'm not sure if you're being a smartass, as sarcasm can't be portrayed effectively over the internet, but varanus dumerilii is also called the brown roughneck monitor.

Being a "smartass"?? You asked if it`s possible to breed the "Black" roughneck with the "Brown", they are EXACTLY the same species, it`s just two names for the one animal, maybe you can do some more research! So NO, you wouldn`t have a unique monitor!??? V.rudicollis aka Black roughneck; V.rudicollis aka BROWN roughneck. No sarcasm either, just asking a perfectly valid question of you ....

No you can not breed them they are two separate species.Brown roughneck V.Dumerillis,and Black Roughneck V.Rudicollis.Why would you want to even try to mix them?It is hard enough to breed both of these species.I know of only 3 people to breed Dumerillis and 1 breed the Black Roughneck.They are all wild caught if you want to start a breeding project get another of the one you already have.

Greg
-----
1.1 Varanus Rudicollis
2.0.3 Varanus jobiesis
0.0.1 Ornate box turtle
0.1 Varanus Salvidorii
0.0.2 Varanus Salvator

there is no yes or no answer to the question as there are many variables you have to consider and prepare for.it probably wouldn't be as simple as throwing the two species together-there's compatability,age of starter monitors,numbers,do you have alot of experience,do you have extra cages if not compatible.yesterday i read someone had eggs from a Argus/Merten's possible mating-who would of thought

Moe
Here's another one for you.
I crossed a female Beccari with a male Prasinus.
I got 3 eggs, one hatched and unforunately I stressed it to death.

Mike
-----
Mike's Monitors!

Hi again Greg, sorry I misunderstood, but that`s why I asked the poster for the latin names, it`s very confusing when people use names which may be common in their location (America), but not elsewhere. In this case, I totally agree with you when you state they should not be cross bred, especially as it sounds just like someone "experimenting" with these animals, just to see what might happen!

I think I am going to disagree with you. First, the chances of this person being successful is slim to none. Second, its slim to none that that keeper can keep any group successfully, so this talk or thread is academic.
(nothing against that keeper, just simple numbers)

Next, to understand these animals IS TO EXPERIMENT, thats how WE LEARN. Breeding different species is far more interesting and causes us to learn far more, then breeding two of the same species. I think we all know THEY ARE SUPPOSE TO BREED. If different species do indeed successfully cross. That brings ups many many many questions that will require more thought. Are you afraid to think or question? Science is to question, not rely on religion(religion=blind faith)(not about god or gods, just blind faith in what your told)

And NEXT, what happens in captivity, is not going to effect wild monitors in anyway, except have a better understanding of them and their relationships to eachother. In otherwords, there will be no negative effects on wild poplutions.

Next, next, next, if you think anything in captivity is pure, well, you need to think about that. In captivity, there are no natural phenotypic pressures or controls. So all captive populations migrate away from natural. As we place captive phenotypic pressures on them. Such pressures as feeding on what WE feed them, and in the captive regime we keep them in. Those that survive that, are indeed, not natural. As our boxes are simply not natural and do not come close. Nature consistantly keeps a species in tune. In captivity, We have a bent tuning fork. Cheers mate

Hi again, you still talk a LOT of sense! My initial reaction was WHY? just as you said, but once again, you tell it the way it actually IS (in some cases, at least), but how many keepers have your knowledge and experience, not just in breeding, but in "understanding" how these animals function (in very technical terms), to carrty this off? Not too many I bet! See, now you`re turning me into a ganmbler...
I wish I`d come across you earlier in my varanid keeping days, I`d know so much more now..... But I DO have a very inquisitive mind, so I`ll continue to question the answers!!
Give me something to criticise (nicely)....

Fr, you understand what i was asking exactly. and to the other guy who got defensive when i wasn't sure if you were being a smartass, i gave you the latin name for the brown roughneck in my second post. I asked this question out of curiosity. i probably will never even attempt to go through with it, but after seeing flavi/argus hybrids or red an black and white tegu hybrids i became curious if the same is possible with these 2 species as they are similiar species. If I ever do try, given how low the chances of successful breeding are already, it might not be much different if i were to try to hybridize them. If when i have the monitors together they seem completely incompatible i can simply separate them. But chances are, i will never go through with this, or not for a very, very long time. I was just curious if it was possible or if it had been tried before.

V.Rudicolis=Black rough neck.
V.Dumerili=Brown rough neck.
Mike
-----
Mike's Monitors!

Thanks,I DO know the diffence now someone`s given the latin names!

Dindi
That is the problem with "common" names.
As you stated latin names do not change from Country to Country, but "common" names do.
I believe your Australian?
I hope your not in the bad weather they're having.

Mike
-----
Mike's Monitors!

Hi Mike, yes, it`s very difficult when we use names from our respective locales!!
Yes, I`m an Aussie, but living in the U.K just now (somebody has to), (why me, I ask)???
No, my family are all in and around Melbourne, that`s the south east state of Victoria (on the bottom left of the Australian map). Last year we had the terrible bushfires, over two hundred people died, they estimate over a million animals, and of course, millions of acres of bush. My user name is a place close to where I`m from, (prime bush, filled with many different animals and plants), it was devastated by the fires (thought to have been deliberate). Of course, the plants wil recover quite quickly, the animals will take some time, the people obviously will NEVER get over it... There`s just no end to our (species) insanity, will we ever learn????
By the way, you have some beautiful monitors, nice enclosures, too! Thanks again for the info on names.

Gee, I`m such a dunce, Melbourne`s on the bottom RIGHT of the Aussie map! (I knew that, I was just testing you all).....

Why not just pickup another Dumeril's? Why try to hybridize it? It's not like Dumeril's are hard to come by.

I could do that, but if they were compatible as hybrids it could potentially lead to a very interesting and unique monitor. I'm curious is anybody has tried it before, or if it is even possible. That's not to say that i will actually do it. It is primarily curiosity, but if it is possible, why not try?

" It is primarily curiosity, but if it is possible, why not try?"

I think a better question is "why try?" I simply don't see any reason to do this. Curiosity or just doing it because you can are not good enough reasons.

The reason I have heard to keep different species together is because the keeper couldn't find a mate for their monitor so they tossed in a mate from another species.

Both Dumeril's and Rudicollis are easy to find so why not get a mate from the same species, possibly get some cbb Dums or Rudis out there to ease up on the wild populations of these animals?

Curiosity is not a well thought-out reason to hybridize.

Asking that kind of question here will only open a can of worms, dead stinky worms at that.

The answer is, there is no answer. Of course its possible. But you have to ask yourself WHY? If you have your own reasons to attempt it, then do it. You do not need any ones permission.

As the person responsible for many varanid crosses, the reason I did them was more about scientific curiousity, and had single animals without a like pair. I am not a fan of keeping a single animal in a box for a lifetime. different species do indeed interact and behavior in a positive way. So it gives them something to do on a daily basis. And for the fools out there, no you don't put a kingorum in with a croc monitor. Please folks, use some common sense.

Varanids are active curious animals, to keep one in a box for years and years alone is absolutely sick. Sorry but thats true. And for people to think they are going to replace other monitors is equally sick.

That being said, how about making two pairs, one of rudis and the other of dums. See if you can accomplish that before you go attempting something else. Then if your real curious, raise up a few babies of each type together, and let them decide whom they want to pair and mate with.

My bet is, when raised from babies, they do not know they are a different species. And so far, every time one species bred another where the keeper knew what they were doing, the results ended up fertile.

So, do what you will, my bet is, and I am betting a lot lately, you do not know how to support captive reproduction. Prove me wrong. Cheers

I don't think i yet have the experience to go through with this, so you are right there. Like i said a few times before, it is primarily curiosity. I don't understand the issue alot members of this forum have with curiosity. Since you started hybridizing some of the australian species, many of those seem more sought after than pure bred ones. your idea of attempting to keep 2 groups and then raise possible babies together is a good one. But like i said a few times before, this is curiosity. I probably wouldn't end up doing it.

I don't think anyone knows if they can be bred necroticism....They probably can but who knows. Alot of people are purists when it comes to breeding whatever type of animal they are keeping.

I have to question that. First off, to be a purist, you can only pair up, what would pair up in nature. As in, the same local colony.

What we have here is, animals from petshops, with no knowledge of where they are from or even if they are from the same island. Muchless the same local.

So pure, Naw, its not about the animal. Its more about the person making up stuff to feel important or something.

I don't know what you do when monitors kill their cage mates but to me that means they do not want a roommate. They want to be left alone. Or they just don't like those particular monitors they were paired with. I don't know how much time monitors spend with each other in the wild it probably varies from region to region species to species.

Purist meaning breeding blackthroats to blackthroats not crossiing them with a different species of monitor.

Frist off, whats with kill their roommates. in my experience that is EXTREMELY rare. Only had that happen with two monitors out of thousands. You know where one outright killed the other.

In most cases, they just don't like eachother. But if you introduce another individual, they get along great. You see, its kinda like us. Some get along, others don't, mostly its not about killing.

In many cases, its mainly because the individuals have never been exposed to another monitor.

In nature they are in groups all the friggin time. At times in the same shelters, at other times very close by.

Heres what is so funny, you can go to a park in Australia, say any park from Sidney to Carins. Go have a picnic. Find a table, and the next thing you know, you have from one to five lacies all around you. hmmmmmmmmm not in groups you say. This occurs from australia to the phillipines with many species.

Blackthroats, hmmmmmmm what subspecies are we talking about and if you breed individuals from different parts of their range, thats as good a cross as any. Blackthroats come from a HUGE range and have several different types. Soon they will be different species(as we keep renaming them). Then they will be hybrids.

I just want to make a very brief comment; putting more than one monitor in a cage that`s been inhabited by another for a time, CAN lead to serious injuries in some cases (not all, by any means), which could in turn, lead to death (I`ve seen it).
Having said this, the enclosures we use are generally speaking, TINY, maybe that`s a good part of the reason, if problems occur?

Well some monitors kill each other if kept together even ones raised together. Also how much time do they spend together in the wild? Not much I'm guessing. I think if they are raised together in a large enough cage they can have a better quality of life...but sometimes not. It just depends on the individual monitor.

that is what ive always been told, up until reading FR's posts. Because of that i have a tegu and the dumerils both alone. I would like to try pairing them up though