Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Has anyone ever had success with breeding a 1300g female? Or is it better to just wait for 1500, and is it too late to start breeding her?
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-Kyle
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Sand Boas
1.1 Anery
0.2 Norm
2.2 Alb

I've seen girls go at 1200 with other breeders, but I try to wait for 1800. Bigger girls = bigger clutches and more survivors. Plus, its just healthier for the females.
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You might be a ball python fanatic if you subconsciously convert the price of virtually everything in to units of piebald ball pythons

had a ~6 year old 1200g female lay 3 large healthy eggs, that hatched 3 large healthy babies. 1 of which is growing at an astounding rate.

if it was a
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www.bamreptiles.webs.com
www.facebook.com/bamreptiles

I have a very small collection so I'm sure these larger collections have more info to go by, but I had an 06 1200g spider breed at 18 months. She had 8 perfect eggs that all hatched. They were small eggs, but they still all hatched in 08. I kept one of her hatchlings (a female spider mojave) that also bred at 18 months and laid 5 small eggs that all went full term and hatched. The problem is the original spider hasn't laid since her first clutch in 08. That's 3 breeding seasons she hasn't laid, so I don't know if her breeding so early is the sole cause of it or not, but I believe it is. I would still do it again given the opportunity because the way prices drop every year you'll either hit a homerun or strike out. I'm glad I got that spider mojave when I did ( I actually got 2) instead of waiting another year,but if I didn't get it I would've been very dissapointed not getting what I wanted AND her not breeding again since so you just have to decide whether you want to risk it or not. I don't have the luxury of having 12 other female spiders or whatever to breed. Hope this helps. Good Luck! Chris Hall

I breed an 06 het albino girl in 08 at 1000g to a het male. She gave me 5 good eggs, all hatched and I ended up with 2.2 albino and 1.0 poss. het. She also produced clutched in 09 and in 2010 and currently weighs just shy of 3000g.

I have an 05 normal girl that breed for the first time in 08 to a pastel at 1600g who gave me 3 good eggs, all hatched as normals. She has not produced in the last 2 years and right now weighs around 1700g.

There are just 2 examples of a homerun and a strikeout. I think a little older and a little bigger is a good thing, but doesn't guarantee anything.

Hi,

Yes, I have had many girls go at the 1,200-1,300gm range. Sometimes they lay a few large eggs and sometimes they lay several small ones. I have never had fertility affected when breeding relatively small females. Remember, if the female wasn't ready to reproduce, she would not grow follicles, produce pheromones, allow breeding and eventually ovulate and lay eggs. If she wasn't physically ready, those chemical and hormonal changes that allow reproduction would not take place. Many folks are under the misguided impression that they know what is better for the snake than the snake itself, based on some book or internet advice they have been given. Instictually, they know better than we do what they need, and if you supply it (food, temps, early nesting options, etc.) they can and will easily reproduce well under the imaginary 1,500gm bar that most folks set as the minimum weight. Listen to the snake, it is the expert. Good luck.

Will

very good point. I agree.

Best response on this issue I've come across yet. We've had several older girls who just never got over 1300-1400 grams. It's not because they don't eat, or only eat once every couple months...maybe it's because they're just SMALLER. One girl last year had a pre lay weight of only 1300 grams. The day after she laid, she was only about 1000. But she wasn't skinny, and had an appropriate weight for her size. Went right back on food without skipping a beat, and is now around 1300 grams. Oh, and she's 6 years old. I am a firm believer that age is more important than weight when it comes to reproduction and, like you said, the animal knows what's best. Should someone breed a yearling that's 1000 grams? Probably not. But if it's a female that's several years old, eats on a regular basis, and is on the smaller side...if she's receptive, go for it.

You made great points that I agree with, but I don't believe the snake knows best and if it does ovulate it's OK. Just because it can doesn't mean it would not have consequesnces further down the road, the next year or even immediately. A little 12 year old girl COULD get pregnant, but do you think her body is really ready to withstand the toll pregnancy will put on it? I know I'm comparing apples to oranges here, but there has to be some kind of detrimental affect on a snakes body laying so young. Don't get me wrong I'll still take that chance most of the time, but I'm just saying sometimes the snake doesn't know best!! Chris

Hi,

I respectfully disagree. I think the snake always knows best. We (the keepers) are just trying to figure out what is best, but they (the snakes) have been doing this for millions of years. The entire focus of a herp's life is to recruit (reproduce). They eat to recruit, they select temperatures and humidity levels that will allow them to recruit, they select nest sites that will allow their offspring to hatch and disperse. As we know, they wrap their clutches to protect and stabilize them, creating microclimates of near perfect temperature and humidity. A reptile knows either instinctively or consciously what it needs to do. In captivity we are the weak link, the chinks in the chain so to speak. Reptiles fail in captivity because of keeper error. When we make the wrong decisions regarding critical components such as food, temps, moisture and nesting (a big factor) the snake (or any herp) fails. I always consider it my fault when something goes wrong with a critter in my care. If they fail, it is because I made an error and didn't provide the animal with the choices it needed to succeed. I've had females as small as 900 gms effortlesly and successfully reproduce with no negative consequences. It worked because I didn't f*** things up, in those instances anyway. I knew what those girls needed in order to get the job done and I provided them with the options they needed: adequate temps and moisture, security and good nesting.

However, I do agree with you that there can be negative consequences down the road, if the keeper does not provide the choices that the animal needs. Poor nesting can cause unbelievable stress on a female, which can accumulate and cause all sorts of problems including, but certainly not limited to, egg binding. But, a good and observant keeper can mitigate the problems that might occur during a reproductive event for any female, large or small and prevent future complications in the process if they give her the choices that will allow success.

I apologize if this post seems condescending, I am sure that you are aware of all of this stuff that I've mentioned. I just wanted to clarify why I believe that the snake is always right and always knows best. It is only when we fail to provide adequate support that these animals fail, in a great majority of instances anyway. Thanks.

Will

PS - I teach sixth grade in an inner city school district and I unfortunately have seen several pregnant 12 year olds over the years, and you are absolutley right, they are neither emotionally nor physiologically ready to reproduce. But I would never acccuse a snake of making the dumb decisions that humans routinely do.

I just wanted to stir things up. Like I said I'd still take that chance most of the time even if my theory was correct that the early breeding of my spider was to blame for the 3 years off. She's on a rack between 2 normal girls that went the year the spider went and the next 3 years after that. Same substrate, water bowl, heat tape, and food offering. Maybe she just devoted the rest of her life to being abstinate (spelling). I hope not. Good Luck this season. Chris