Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am looking for something active or at least hangs out once in awhile.If they just dont make good display animals thats fine I have a few other ideas.
I had a really nice leuc. texas ratsnake (which I lost) and she hid most the time and I maybe saw her once a week.Then not at all because she escaped out of the tiniest hole imaginable.

In my experience most of my rats were all pretty secretive as juvies. As they matured and gained size and confidence they became less so.

The metallic Bairdsi are IMHO some of the nicest looking of the rats for display. As are nice, big, black rats. There are some pretty morphs also.

You might consider some of the Pits for a display animals. Even as juvies almost all of mine are out, about and active except for when shedding.

I just fed everyone and my Northerns, Black Pines and red bulls are still out on display even with multiple hides available.

On the other hand my deppeis and lined pines are always hiding and I seldom see them except when feeding.

Hope this helps.
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BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
1.2 P. m. melanoleucus B/W N. J. Northern Pines
1.2 P. d. deppei Mexican Pines
2.2 P. l. lineaticollis Linis or Lined Pines
1.2 P. m. lodingi Black Pines
0.3 P. c. sayi Kingsville X Stillwater red bulls
1.1 Drymarchon melenurus Blacktail Cribo
1.2 D. corais Yellowtail Cribos
1.2 M. s. cheynei Jungle Carpet
2.6 L. p. pyromelana Arizona Mt. Kings
1.1 L. g. californiae B/W Cali kings
0.0.3 M. f. flagellum Eastern Coachwhips
1.2 G. m. bottegoi Western Plated lizards

I have a hypo everglades that hangs out all day on top of his hide. They make great display animals.
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1.2 Chihuahua's
0.1 Cockatiel
1.1 Normal BCI Colombian Boa
1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
1.0 Woma Python
1.0 Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Leucistic Texas Rat Snake
1.1 Hypo Everglades Rat Snake
0.1 Mexican Black King snake
1.0 Sunglow Corn Snake
1.0 Sunglow Motley Corn Snake
1.0 Coral Snow Corn Snake
1.0 Bearded Dragon
1.0 Blue Tongue Skink
0.2 Leopard Gecko's
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula
0.0.2 Emporer Scorpion
0.0.1 Ghost Knife
Assorted Tropical Fish

My leucy hangs out on her branch most of the time. About the only time she's not out is pre-shed when she goes into a humid hide.

>>I am looking for something active or at least hangs out once in awhile.If they just dont make good display animals thats fine I have a few other ideas.
>>I had a really nice leuc. texas ratsnake (which I lost) and she hid most the time and I maybe saw her once a week.Then not at all because she escaped out of the tiniest hole imaginable.

I keep my bairds rats in tanks as opposed to racks. They are active and exceptional looking.

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Corn snakes and rat snakes...No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

Jimmy those are some sweet looking Bairds.
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BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
1.2 P. m. melanoleucus B/W N. J. Northern Pines
1.2 P. d. deppei Mexican Pines
2.2 P. l. lineaticollis Linis or Lined Pines
1.2 P. m. lodingi Black Pines
0.3 P. c. sayi Kingsville X Stillwater red bulls
1.1 Drymarchon melenurus Blacktail Cribo
1.2 D. corais Yellowtail Cribos
1.2 M. s. cheynei Jungle Carpet
2.6 L. p. pyromelana Arizona Mt. Kings
1.1 L. g. californiae B/W Cali kings
0.0.3 M. f. flagellum Eastern Coachwhips
1.2 G. m. bottegoi Western Plated lizards

I really dont care much for the Bairds.I mean yours is pretty but they dont all look that good.

I have found Baird's, Black Rats and Russians all to be good display animals.
My Russians typically bask under a spotlight (they also have an undertank heater).

Tim

Third Eye

I already have a black milksnake.So I think maybe the Everglades but Ive looked online and there are some very ugly everglades, that look like bad yellow ratsnakes.

I wouldnt know what to look for in a good everglades.

Look for one like this, or like "monklet's" nice Everglades photo perching in the branch. Or a hypo Everglades would be even more eye-popping too.

In a hatchling however, a normal Everglades would be far different looking than it would as an adult though, I certainly agree.

~Doug

Here is a photo of this same one above as a hatchling....

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

Even a very nice clean example of a yellow rat would work well too.

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

Man I love that yellow! Your glades is super bright also! And I wouldn't mind at all if that youngster grew up just like that.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

Thanks Brad!,

Yeah, he was definitely an exceptional looking Yellow Rat for sure. I think your Everglades is a really nice example as well!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

"I think your Everglades is a really nice example as well!"

...yeah, he's alright ...on a good day LOL!
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

Bairds have a lot of color if you don't want to go with a Black Snake. Here's mine, just out of winter cooling.

Male:

Female:

Third Eye

Glades

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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

They love to climb!

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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

Sweet, any wonder they are so often found in the rafters of abandoned buildings. LOL
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BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
1.2 P. m. melanoleucus B/W N. J. Northern Pines
1.2 P. d. deppei Mexican Pines
2.2 P. l. lineaticollis Linis or Lined Pines
1.2 P. m. lodingi Black Pines
0.3 P. c. sayi Kingsville X Stillwater red bulls
1.1 Drymarchon melenurus Blacktail Cribo
1.2 D. corais Yellowtail Cribos
1.2 M. s. cheynei Jungle Carpet
2.6 L. p. pyromelana Arizona Mt. Kings
1.1 L. g. californiae B/W Cali kings
0.0.3 M. f. flagellum Eastern Coachwhips
1.2 G. m. bottegoi Western Plated lizards

Oh dude that is one sweet looking glades rat. How's the temperament?
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BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
1.2 P. m. melanoleucus B/W N. J. Northern Pines
1.2 P. d. deppei Mexican Pines
2.2 P. l. lineaticollis Linis or Lined Pines
1.2 P. m. lodingi Black Pines
0.3 P. c. sayi Kingsville X Stillwater red bulls
1.1 Drymarchon melenurus Blacktail Cribo
1.2 D. corais Yellowtail Cribos
1.2 M. s. cheynei Jungle Carpet
2.6 L. p. pyromelana Arizona Mt. Kings
1.1 L. g. californiae B/W Cali kings
0.0.3 M. f. flagellum Eastern Coachwhips
1.2 G. m. bottegoi Western Plated lizards

Thanks He's a funny snake. Handles really well but can be very willful at times and usually hates being locked-up. A fussy eater too. And lately he only seems to want to eat if he's out. A very curious and alert snake. Sometimes he p's me off by being a dick, other times we get along fine.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

LOL!!!, too funny man!

And GREAT photo of him perched on the branch there Brad!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

nm

Well, I keep this guy in a glass tank cause he is usually out and about. Saying he is not shy would be an understatement. He's either interested in food or a fight.

He's "displaying" alright!..HAHAA!!

A beauty of a beauty!..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

If I got something like that Id get a Tiger rat.

The pair I have are downright interactive w/ me. Awesome display animals, although I'll mention they're the messiest snakes I've ever owned.

eom
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

There are lots of options and opinions out there but personally like the everglades rats normal or otherwise.The russian rat would be next,but that's just my opinion!Cool thread! Jeff

>>I am looking for something active or at least hangs out once in awhile.If they just dont make good display animals thats fine I have a few other ideas.
>>I had a really nice leuc. texas ratsnake (which I lost) and she hid most the time and I maybe saw her once a week.Then not at all because she escaped out of the tiniest hole imaginable.

I'm not sure what exactly you are looking for in a display snake.

One morph which may appeal to you, since you like leucistics, is calico. There are at least two unrelated rat snake species which have calico morphs. One is black rats, whose calico mutation is called "calico cowsucker" by its originator, Will Bird. Another is calico Chinese beauty snakes (Orthriophis taeniurus taeniurus). Chinese beauties are not crazy about being handled and are mostly very flighty and shy - but if you provide a cage with branches, they will most likely do some climbing and perching. I like these guys a lot. Here is a pic of a subadult calico Chinese beauty.

Another Asian which might be a good display animal is Elaphe dione - the Steppes rat snake. They are some of the most docile Asian rats, and stay fairly small - mostly under 40 inches. They are not very arboreal, but they are not shy and are diurnal, so they can be observed easily. Here is a photo of a very gravid female South Korean locality dione.

I have just gotten into another species from Asia, which seems like it would be an awesome display animal - Rhynchophis boulengeri, the Vietnamese rhino rat snake. Mine are babies and a little flighty, but they have a rep for being very docile as adults - and they are at least semi-arboreal. They go through an ontogenetic change and eventually become some shade of green - usually fairly bright.

Another "green" rat snake is the Northern Green rat snake, Senticolis triapis intermedia. I have an adult pair and some of their 2010 offspring, and have found them to be mostly fairly docile, but a little shy in captivity. My adult female is very docile and diurnally active, but my adult male is somewhat flighty and less willing to be observed. The species has a rep for being difficult to keep in captivity, but I have not found them to be too difficult - aside from most of mine only wanting live mice for food. They need a well ventilated cage or tub and good dry and moist hides. Here is a (not very good) photo of my adult male, from a couple years ago.

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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

One brutal salvo ...I'm down for the count! Love those Calico Beauties!!!
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

>>One brutal salvo ...I'm down for the count! Love those Calico Beauties!!!
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>> See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

LOL! Thanks, Brad!

The calico beauties are still one of my favorites. There are several very interesting morphs of O. t. taeniurus, aside from calicos - there are hypomelanistic (T pos albino?), T- albino, striped, melanistic, snow, platinum, and maybe others I've forgotten...

Here is a hypomelanistic (T pos albino?) O. t. taeniurus with her eggs. She was sold to me as a T positive albino, but some breeders (in the know) consider her to be hypomelanistic...

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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

Wow Toby!, and the way she laid all of her eggs in a nice little upright bundle is pretty unreal too!..LOL!

Those were some great shots of some smokin animals in your other post there as well!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

Thanks Doug! I think she looks kind of like a straw basket of eggs in that pic. LOL

Here are those eggs / babies hatching - they are double het for calico and hypo (T pos albino?)...

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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

LOL!!,...she does at THAT!

Cool little double-het pipper's!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

n/p
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

I am just overwhelmed with all the great animals shown here by all.
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Good thread.....
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Personally, I find the best "show" animals, i.e. those that stay out where they can be seen, are mostly Rats that prefer to climb and seem secure while exposed.
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With many of my adult Rats, I use plastic or silk, natural-looking plants to enhance climbing branches. I think these animals are calmer and stay exposed longer if they "feel" hidden with plants.
With some long term captives, I don't put in a hide at all, as long as they seem like they arn't stressed.
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Observing Rats in the field, one often finds them basking in a tangle of Grapevine, entwined in the roots of an upturned tree.
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Regards, Bill McGighan

Red tail green rat snakes (Gonyosoma oxycephala) are great display animals and you can get them in a variety of color variations.
You definately want to stick with CBB gonyos though....WC are too shy and aggressive to make display snakes, plus they will die on you.

Cheers
PatD

Nice looking Gonyo's there!

Looks like they have a nice little habitat there as well.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

Those are some awesome oxycephalum, Pat - thanks for posting them! I have been an admirer of those for a long time - but unfortunately they just get too big for my little snake room. I imagine that they make very impressive display animals...
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

Animals and arrangement are just fantastic, Pat.
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Regards, Bill McGighan

Beautiful snakes. The gray/blue one is phenomonal! Never seen that morph before.

"WC are too shy and aggressive to make display snakes, plus they will die on you."

Not to mention all the ones that die for each one that makes it here. I strongly discourage purchasing of WC imports in most situations.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

I agree that the import of almost all species is now unnecessary as there are captive bred specimens available. In the mid-80's, when I started keeping Gonyos, there not only were very, very few people breeding them - but the lack of internet as a resource made it so difficult to find out who was out there.
Even such information as husbandry, incubation parameters and length, etc. were really a mystery to me at the time and I had only a few scarce references to rely on. I'm not proud to admit that I killed off my share of WC oxy's before I was able to establish a breeding group. I fared even worse with hatch rates until I learned a little about the incubation period and the idiosyncrasies of their eggs.
Today there are still not too many people breeding them in NA but there are enough that a person should never consider buying WC in my opinion....but the cheap prices and relative availability of WC insures a market for them, which is a shame.
I think the fact that many people's only exposure to some species (like Gonyos, Spilotes, Pseustes, etc.) was with WC specimens is a big part of what has kept these species from becoming more popular....and that too is a shame IMHO.

Yep, there is a difficult irony there. Yes we want the snakes. No, we don't want poaching, importation and all the attendant issues. I'm good with the few serious hobbyists who import only with the intent of establishing a breeding group to replace the need for WC, for profit or not.

As a fellow hobbyist I do appreciate the hard won successes of keepers such as yourself. Fact is, you can't hardly breath in this world without killing stuff. Seems we're almost hypocritical by birth.

Thanks for the informative story about your experience. Your successes must be highly gratifying. Right-on man!
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

Yup, from birth!!!! But then, that's job security for me!!!!!

Shalom,

Pat G-C

Good point about the plants / leaves statement, Bill - and I agree. I have used PVC "branches" with plastic or silk vine plants for my Chinese Beauties before, and they used them quite a bit.
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

Ok Toby,
You invoked a totally irrelevant old guy story.
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Whoop - Whoop- Whoop- Whoop- Whoop
Old story warning…
Whoop- Whoop- Whoop- Whoop- Whoop
Turn back now while you can…..
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As a young guy, I kept Rats, Kings, etc. in Spartan cages…. Fish tank, water bowl, bedding, and hide.
They seemed to thrive.
The first Keeled Green Snake I found, I was captivated by such a delicate, green creature.
I put it in a 20 Gal. Tank with the same setup as a Rat Snake plus a climbing branch.
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Result = the animal refused to eat when provided a variety of insect meals.
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After a short time, I decided not to abuse this animal any longer, so I took her to a hedge in the back yard. I mowed the yard a few passes and found a medium grasshopper, took it to the hedge, and found the Green (she hadn’t moved far).
I offered the grasshopper and she ate it ferociously.
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In my ignorance, I thought she just had “kicked in” to eating.
I returned her to the same cage.
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2 days later, she again refused food.
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I wrapped her cage branch in a plastic philodendron.
Result = She gobbled up every insect in the cage, even taking smooth caterpillars from my fingers.
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While this doesn’t prove a visual cue from the security of green, anecdotally it point in that direction.
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Regards, Bill McGighan

Always good to get your input here Bill. Thanks!
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

Man, that is some great stuff there!..LOL!...love it!

With many snakes, it is ALL about feeling secure and in the right environment.

A very interesting read indeed!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

Well, in return you have invoked a bad photo! LOL

Here is an old pic of my big hypo (T pos albino?) beauty, "hiding" among some fake leaves. Note - she was not "in" a hide, but she felt perfectly comfortable looking out through that hole between the leaves...

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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

I have Everglades, Yellows and a Yellow x gray and all are great display animals. I keep them all individually in their own natural setup. I guess I would say my 6 foot male Everglades is one of the best. He's always out, up on a branch and is a beautiful bright orange snake.

I'd love to see pics of your everglades if you have any to share! Thanks! Jeff