Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi everyone. I'm new here and new to Kingsnakes.
I recently adopted a young (16"long, about the diameter of asparagus (haha)) Reverse Stripe Cali. Kingsnake. Beautiful guy.

He has been acclimating in his new enclosure for a week now, and ate his first meal in his new home on Monday. I understand adjusting to a new environment is stressful and takes time. I also understand lots of repeated handling will eventually help... but...

This is some serious aggression I'm seeing over the last couple of days. I have experience with Sinaloan Milksnakes and never once was struck. This guy strikes at us in his cage (tries to fly up at us), into the glass if we're at eye level,etc. I was able to hold him last night and calm him down for a second, when out of nowhere, his nail goes crazy again and he went for my face! Humorous, really, since I know he can't hurt me, but I'm honestly a little blown away and concerned at this. I have a young niece and nephew that I'd like to be able to share snake ownership with, and aggression like that just won't fly with me.

Is this normal for baby kings? Again I know he can't harm me, but I want him to be as socialized as possible and human instinct makes me jump, and boyfriend is worried about accidentally dropping him if strikes out of nowhere.

Help?

Thanks!!

Totally normal.. Most grow out of it..

Good Luck!

~ Mike Russo

With california kingsnakes it can go either way really... Some can be handled constantly, others are extremely vicious. They usually start to mellow out around 2 feet in length. But some will remain aggressive regardless.

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Mike
KingPin Reptiles
www.kingpinreptiles.com

Hey Mike, that snake is very pretty. I kinda lost interest in California kings a long time ago but I like the color of some of the more purple looking albinos I've been seeing lately. Is that a lavender?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

that's just a plain old albino hatchling from 2004. he's no good for producing babies but he's a soldier so I keep him around. definitely some good looking cali kings out there though..
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles
www.kingpinreptiles.com

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I definitely want to give this guy a good committed chance. I'll continue to handle him as much as possible so he can get used to us. Hopefully he'll mellow out.

I'd suggested NOT handling him more than once a week or at every cage cleaning, until he gets a little older. Too much handling at this stage can do more harm than good. Let him get some size (24 inches or so) and see how things go.
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http://www.mikefoux.com
http://www.snakerack.info

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Really?

If he's about 16" long now...what would you consider an average growth rate? He's fed one defrosted pinkie every Monday.

That's not a very big weekly meal for a kingsnake.

Suggested meal size should be a prey item about 1 1/2 the diameter of the snake. Kings can metabolize food pretty quickly with a warm enough hot spot for digestion. At 16" I would believe he could easily eat 2 pinky rats of 2 hopper mice per meal but I would have to see how big around he is.

A juvie king could possibly eat that twice a week.
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BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
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Oh wow... ok. I guess my inexperience really shows then. The breeder we bought him from recommended that.

The picture attached is about 120% his actual size. He's literally the width of a Sharpie.

I agree with the others on both points. Some people's idea of a "pinky" can mean very different things relating to the size. It looks in pretty good health weight-wise, but getula the diameter of a "sharpie" marker can easily eat one or two very chubby fuzzie mice at a time about every 4 to 5 days. A pinky once a week just isn't enough for it to thrive at all to it's potential.

Also, as previously mentioned, I would NOT handle it as much as possible either!!. That will do nothing but constantly stress it out. Let him be what he is at this point, which is a small fragile juvenile that would rather avoid large monsters(YOU), until it gradually gets used to things in time and with maturing size.

Also, never hold it until two days after a good meal either, as this can easily cause regurgitations in stressed/nervous snakes. That is FAR more dangerous to a young snake than simply losing the meal it just ate. It can cause HUGE problems with a "domino-affect" and actually lead to death if the keeper keeps insisting on feeding them soon after when their gut has not acclimated back to normal with it's proper acid ph level, electrolytes, enzymes and proper stomach flora(bacteria) to digest properly in conjunction with proper temps. This takes a good week or so AFTER a regurge has occured.

Kingsnakes have very strong neck muscles that can easily force the meal into going down their seemingly small heads and neck. Don't over-do it, but they can easily eat things bigger than many people would think they can, and if given the proper heat, will easily be digested by their extremely fast metabolism compared to some other colubrids.

Good luck with it, that's a nice little Cal. king you have there.

Here is an example of what the meal should look like in proportion to the snake's body size.

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

Thank you so much!

I appreciate all your input.
I'm very active in the aquarium hobby, so I'm used to hearing all sorts of different opinions. This makes sense though. I understand I'm a huge monster to him - it's only logical. I have done a lot of research on regurgitation and make sure not to handle him at least two days, like you mentioned, after feeding.

I really want the poor guy to calm down and be ok with handling. IMO, there's no point in owning a beautiful animal if you can't interact with it.

Should I increase his meals to two pinkie mice a week? Or just one LARGER meal?

Thanks again

Well, one meal is fine every 4 to 5 days if it is big enough to put a very noticeable bulge in it's mid-section, otherwise, give it two slightly smaller meals to make up for the prey size.

Just give the snake time to mature some. They generally get much better as they mature a bit and put on some size. Remember though, all snakes are different, and some are more naturally relaxed when handled than others. Just let it mature some more first.

I have some of the most nervous. thrashy snakes there are in the hobby(Honduran milksnakes), and most ALL of them get very manageable by around a year of age or earlier. It is extremely rare when they don't thrash around as hatchlings from the beginning, but there are exceptions to everything.

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

That's funny you mention Hondurans - that was our second choice! I have a lot to learn, it seems

Well I really appreciate your help. We were sort of swayed in the direction of 'the more you handle, the more used to you he gets.' And that getting them as young as possible is best.

Do you recommend an interval for handling at his current maturity?

Like some of the other's mentioned, maybe once or twice a week is okay, and they also get used to movement and activity from you opening up the enclosure and cleaning/watering as well. They generally gradually become accustomed to you, and start learning you are not out to eat them or do them great bodily harm..LOL!

Just try to move very slowly and deliberately as opposed to quick jerky movements. That really sets them off in "fight or flight" mode..LOL!

Another good thing to do is to fashion a small hook out of stiff wire(or cloths hanger). Then gently hook them out of the cage at mid-body so they don't see the giant monster hand of death zeroing down upon them. Then slowly and gently place the snake in your free-hand. This way, they don't spook like they would when just grabbing them would. This works great for many nervous snakes. They don't feel NEARLY as threatened this way.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

ahhh, Good to know I'm doing something right! I have aquarium-plant forceps that are curved and padded for brittle plants, that I have used to scoop him. (not grabbing, don't worry)

There's no way I'm going to dig him out of his favorite hide rock with my fingers, while he's trying to show me his big-boy strike having a spaz attack.

I'll increase his pinky-intake until that stash of food is gone, then I'll get him some larger mice.

Thanks again!!

LOL!,...yep!, sure thing.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

Tight, secure places for the snake to hide are an absolute MUST too. This will allow them to feel good and secure especially when they are a more vulnerable size. You can use things like low-profile dark plastic frozen meal trays and cut an entrance notch in the rim.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

Ok! I have an old hide-rock from my leopard gecko days that has a lot of nooks and crevices up from the bottom and into it. He curls himself into a quarter in there.

That will work fine. The only down-side to those are getting him out when you want, but other than that it is a great piece of security from the snake's point of view. Small flat hides allow you to simply lift and hook without having to dig it out, in which case the snake feels more like it is being attacked. See what I mean?

As long as you leave him be when he is all tucked in there, and don't have to tug and pull him out, that is still fine. But otherwise you might want to make it easier to take out. But that is really up to you.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties