Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This isn't a grayband but it is from the Pecos region and alot of them are seen and captured while looking for graybands.

The clutch this snake hatched from was laid on Oct. 8, 2010, incubated at 76-82F, with a few unintentional spikes to 88F and began hatching yesterday, Feb. 9, 2011. That's 125 days from deposition to first pipping.

Does anybody have a longer incubation time for subocs?

Here's a couple pics.

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incubation periods of over 100 days have been documented since the 70's. I don't know what the maximum known is, however.

Oh. I didn't know that. I should have looked it up, guess I'm lazy sometimes, lol.
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I do not know if it has ever actually been documented, but there is a theory out there that some of the wild Trans Pecos Ratsnake's eggs over winter and hatch in the spring. I know that I have found several babies in the spring that still show very definite umbilicle scars and appear to still have the yolk sack visible. If that is so, then some of the incubation periods would be well in excess of 100 days depending on the winter. Anybody else think this???

ECT

YEAH.....I'VE FOUND SEVERAL WHAT I'D TERM FRESH HATCHED "SUBS"....when i was in country in early summer....and i 've heard that overwinter theory several times from guys i'd think know whats goin' down out there.....they tend to be later breeders and ovidepositors than other alternaland snakes....anyone able to get them walking frogs this spring????

Do you mean barking frog? I have always kept an eye out for you but I have only seen one and that was in like '98. Of course now I don't know where I could pick one up legally. Are they in the Davis? If so I'll start checking the hoppers. I usually just drive right by them.
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thanks......and my request is for legally collected barking frogs......most seem to be found by accident......

I have heard that theory before. I think it's a possibility. I have never hunted TX in the spring so I haven't found subocs at that time. The umbilicus scar is interesting. I should make an effort to see how long they retain it in captivity.
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You might want to read Costanzo, et al. 2008. The paper was published in the J. Exp. Zool. and deals with turtles and tortoises, however one could infer the possibility of nest overwintering could apply to other reptile species in North America and elsewhere. I have the paper as a PDF, email me if you want it.

Aaron, did you get any mercury phase out of that clutch?
Art used to breed the subocs every year and he would have them go from 100-110 days all the time but I am not sure he ever had them go 125.
I had a friend that lived in Michigan and he never used a incubator and his pines and even his hodos would take 120-130 days to hatch for him.He always had huge ass babies though and almost always had all females???LOL...

L8r

In case people don't know "Mercury" is just another name for axanthic. Mine are most likely the exact same gene as the Axanthics and Silvers that are already out there but mine are pure Black Gaps, started from a wc axanthic Black Gap and kept pure by using only wc normal Black Gap subocs to develop the line. The name hasn't really taken off and some people seem to have just decided to call them Black Gap Silvers. I actually prefer the name Silver over Mercury too but I wouldn't feel right calling them Silvers without them having been proven compatable, which I haven't tried yet.

I got three hatchlings out so far and I believe two of them are "Mercury". There was just one clutch this year and it was from a Mercury x Het Mercury breeding. Thanks for asking.
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Scotty says if you cross the Mercury with the Silver you may end up with some dilithium crystals? Who knows though!

L8r

He does huh? He's a GOOD MAN.
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Hey Aaron. I had a clutch from a tripple het to tripple het breeding that was laid on October 11th and a blond clutch that was laid on Oct. 15th. The first clutch hatched on Dec. 29th and the second hatched on Jan. 14th. In the tripple to tripple breeding I got one female normal pattern snow, a really nice pair of albinos and 1.2 normal pattern axanthics. (2.4 total) Dave Katz

Wow those are some great clutches. Thanks for the incubation info too. That's got to be one of the first normal pattern snows out there right? Actually I hadn't heard of them til just now.
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There are few out there but less than 10 for sure. This one is from the Loma Alta line of albinos. I will try to post pics. Dave

Here is the pic of the snow and the albinos that I hatched out this year. Dave

Very nice, congrats.
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