Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello wich moisturising cream are you using to keep your lizards skin looking fantastic...I know a girl using bioderma on her beloved monitor...was courious as to what works for yours.
cheers

I'm hoping this is a joke

she says that her monitors skin was always dry and shed stuck befor starting the cream treatment???

To jobi: If the monitor had difficulty shedding, it was a husbandry fault (too low a humidity), using cream will not solve the problem, even though it may help with the symptoms, and if your own monitor has the same difficulty, you both need to adjust the humidity to the correct level, then the shedding problem should stop, if that and all the other parameters are good.
Can you give details of your set up (temps, humidity, enclosure size/type, etc, etc, and your friends if possible)? Thanks!

no no my monitors are fine... I was just curious as to how many use moisturising cream??

That`s a great head shot!
Good to know yours are o.k, as I said, treating the symptoms isn`t the answer, it`s the cause of the problem that needs addressing!

This is a very good subject as there are or has been several products on the market for use in this area.

The correct thing to do is, prevent the problem, which is easy. A healthy monitor glows and is colorful(for its species)

Shedding problems are a product of poor husbandry or just overall poor health.

The next question is, are these products benefitual or harmful to healthy monitors??? That is a good question.

You are correct FR.... Any animals look nice if you feed them and keep them properly, which are the signs of healthy animals.

I don`t think a moisturising cream in itself would be "harmful" to varanids (obviously, so long as they don`t ingest it), but as we`ve stated, a healthy monitor doesn`t have shedding problems,
if all the conditions are good.
I think there could be a problem with people who use it on their animals instead of addressing the real causes of bad sheds, which can turn into something more serious if the husbandry isn`t corrected, so I personally would say, why use them?
And besides, it would take forever and a day to go around the bush applying moisturiser to all the monitors in the world, just to make them better looking, and "glowing with health"!?

This has raised many uestions in my mind...first why or how is it detrimental to a lizard?
sure we can argue that lizards do not swheat...however this dont mean that lizard skin is impermeable...no more then an egg shell.

Hi again jobi, I have to correct you; the Varanid skin IS completely impermeable, if it were not, they would lose moisture through it, in which case, the bush would be full of very dehydrated and dead monitors!

come on you really belive this?

if it was it would have no healing properties!

What has healing got to do with losing moisture through the skin? They do not have permeable skin, it doesn`t matter whether you believe that, it`s still a scientific fact.
Research, please research! (Seriously, just look it up; type the question into your search engine): "Do monitor lizards have a permeable skin"? (Then get back to me to tell me you were mistaken)!
But thanks for questioning the answer I gave, it`s the only way to learn...

I am science...lizard skin is a living membrane and it is not impermeable...no point for discusion.

iv devoted 30 years to varanid biology (non stop)and I dont care who says otherwise...varanid skin is permeable, PERIOD!!!

I am not science, but, I would have to say, their skin is to some extent permeable.

There are at least two areas to this, first the scales themselves. Then the skin between the the scales.

In several parts of the body, the scales have pits or organs. Which are openings in the scales. Also, with different species, the skin is very different, as in, thinner and thicker scales and skin(hide) This is easily seen in how fast a specific monitor species dehydrates. Forest species can and do lose water at a much faster rate then xeric species. One has thinner skin, the other thicker skin.

So if the skin is not permeable, then where are they losing the moisture from????

You see, this is where we run into problems. Often science will test a certain part or section of something and make statements. yet, the subject is a whole living animal. So the animal does not align with the test science performed.

If the skin was totally non permeable, then the only way they would lose water is thru resperation(breathing) then different species would dehydrate equally according to size. Which clearly is not the case.

Put an ackie and a prasinus of equal size in the same dry conditions and there is no question what so ever, the prasinus will dehydrate faster. If not throught the skin, then why would one react differently then the other.

Could you link us to these papers that say varanid skin is totally non permeable? Also how about investigating how these tests were done.

Its there, the methods used, that has in the past caused lots of problems. One huge arguement here was over lethal temps in varanids. We stated what temps our monitors picked and the science boys said those were above known lethal temps that were published. So Daniel Bennett investigated how the temps were determined. As it turns out, it was something Auffenburg published. How he tested it was to stake a monitor in the sun and measure its temps when it died. Which is really really really poor test. I believe the lethal temps was 108F. Well, monitors, particularly smaller individuals, can and do use well above that temp. But they do so by their own choice. Also, its well known that if you restrain a reptile thats near its maximum temps, it will go into shock and die, something about lactic shock.

Sorry not the change the subject, but its very important to use methods or tests that reflect the actual performance of the animal. Not a lab test thats not in any actual context to the actual subjects, the monitors life.

Back to the subject, It appears to me, their skin is not only permeable, but varies from species to species, and from young to old. Cheers

You are more about science then anyone I know...you look, study test and retest trying to understand... you dont take anything for granted and always keep on open mind...funny that peapoles think you stuborn?

you are science!!

cheers

To jobi (and everyone else who read my reply): My apologies, I truly DO know better than to say varanids have a completely impermeable skin!! I opened my mouth without putting my brain into gear. I should have said they don`t lose a lot of moisture through that organ (i.e they don`t sweat), you have my permission to shoot me (but just a flesh wound, I have a very busy schedule)... Thanks to Frank R and Nate for correcting me!

To jobi: I see the last message is titled "fool", I hope that isn`t meant for me, I certainly feel a little foolish just now, but I`m no fool!

no I am calling Frank a fool...cause hes been an insperation to just about everyone for decades...especialy the science comunity.

pleas do not get upset over forum talk...these are only words...mine are never meant to offend.
rgds

Thanks! I`m not upset, just annoyed with myself for being in such a hurry to respond, I didn`t look at what I`d said `til it was too late!

I hear you!!

once you dig into the caretors on this site and you start feeling the forums pulse...your hooked!!!

Yes, it can be very "hooking" being on these forums, the problem for me is, I`m around 5 hours ahead of you all in the States, just as you`re getting into it, I`m ready for getting out!!

"Hi again jobi, I have to correct you; the Varanid skin IS completely impermeable, if it were not, they would lose moisture through it, in which case, the bush would be full of very dehydrated and dead monitors!"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Um, no it wouldn't be full of dead dehydrated monitors, because they utilize areas that limit airflow, you know like burrows, cracks, etc. It's the whole point of stacks...ability to thermoregulate without dessicating. Jesus F'ing Christ, that concept has been repeated over and over again for the last 15 years...and people still don't get that? It's why screen tops are bad...it's why deep soil is important even outside of nesting...

i might be wrong,but what Jobi said,tongue and cheek,i am going to say Jobi's point is to keep an open mind.what the majority of people think is factual isn't necessarily true-it just masks and promotes poor husbandry.a cream for monitor skin could be a product-but stops people from thinking of the causes of dry skin and correcting the husbandry.the sad thing is making people think is discouraged and considered ranting.Frank always adds at the end of his posts about a rant-it should be sorry for dissagreeing with you and making you think-i guess rant is shorter LOL

Hi moe64, I hope the "fool" title was tongue in cheeck, it does none of us good when individuals resort to "name calling". My reply was silly, and made without thought for what I was saying, but that`s all; nothing I can do except apologise, which I`ve already done.
I agree with you, too many people don`t actually think about things they`ve been told, or read about, it`s just blindly accepted, and then somehow becomes "fact". I think that`s why it`s difficult much of the time to know what`s good advise and what`s not, especially for those new to the hobby (and some of us not so new, too)!

There`s no "C" in cheek, I knew that, too!! (My life`s sooooo hard)!!

April 1st is still a bit more than a month away isn't it???

how I wish it was!!

unfortunatly we ar talking about a mature owner of a drug store...a busty blue eye beauty that talked about her monitors husbandry a full hour to a 5 grade class...dont aske me what she said, all I cauld thing about is how shed fit in my V-berth.

funny I have not mentioned about me keeping any lizards...really I do not care...its amazing how peapole find new ways of killing them slowly.

I am courious if others do this too!

She must not want her monitor to develope crows feet around the eyes!

>>Hello wich moisturising cream are you using to keep your lizards skin looking fantastic...I know a girl using bioderma on her beloved monitor...was courious as to what works for yours.
>>cheers
>>

OH JOBI! How you made my head hurt. Thought you had lost your marbles for a bit
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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
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