Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have as you all know a juvenile Savannah at 22". Yesterday I went to this new petstore that opened a few weeks ago. They had everything, every dog, cat, bird, its a very nice looking pet store too. I went into their reptile section and I noticed their 2 month old Savannahs. They were beautiful and bright in color. They had two at about 6" long. I asked the worker if I could put him with Jango, he asked how big so I told him. He said "No! Dont put this little guy with your currently growing big guy there buddy. Your big guy will eat this little baby for a snack." He told me I should keep this baby in a seperate tank for a little while till he gets huge. I told him I'd think about it. What do you guys think? Would my sav eat that little baby sav if I put them together? I would like to get a companion for him but one that he wont eat.
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My Savannah Monitor Jango's Statistics:

Size: 22"
Weight: 2 pounds
Ambient Temps: 88 degrees
Bask Spot Temps: 102 degrees
Night time Temps: 72 degrees
Diet: Thawed 3 inch mice and other meat products
Tank: 6x3x3 Enclosure
Age: 14 Months (his size is small for his age but he is starting to catch up shedding at 2 times a month!)

No guarrantees either way. They have their own personalities and preferences, only they can answer that.

If your very intent on purchasing him. You should keep him in a seperate enclosure, unless you plan on breeding them. Otherwise keep them seperated My advice to you , is not to buy it. Give all you can to Jango, as I believe quality of maintenance goes down with the amount of herps you own. Unless youre ready to give your all, to all your herps.If not, then dont purchase him. When youre ready you will know your ready. I own plenty of snakes but its nothing compared to the amount of work and responsibility monitors involve. Best of luck!

Yeah, you are right. I can hold off to get a companion for him. I do pick him up and handle him each day and I do visit him. I will probably wait a little while till he gets a roommate.
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My Savannah Monitor Jango's Statistics:

Size: 22"
Weight: 2 pounds
Ambient Temps: 88 degrees
Bask Spot Temps: 102 degrees
Night time Temps: 72 degrees
Diet: Thawed 3 inch mice and other meat products
Tank: 6x3x3 Enclosure
Age: 14 Months (his size is small for his age but he is starting to catch up shedding at 2 times a month!)

What in the heck does that mean?

I would think it would be MUCH more important to provide 'quality of life', which means a life worth living, from the monitor's perspective. And if you think by someone having one monitor they are providing a better quality life, than those whose monitors have to deal with the stress and risks of introductions, breeding, and socializing, you should really think how you would feel being put in the same situation. There is nothing wrong with keeping one monitor, but do not think that your or somebody else's care is somehow better or worse to those that have more, just because they have more.

By having more monitors, you are able to learn more things quicker, thus your care for ALL of them improves. You also learn why the correct answers are vague, it is ALL about applying to the individuals, specific answers to any but the simplest questions are misleading at best.

This is all dependant on the person being willing to learn, and willing to put the time and money into it. Adding a monitor does not add a tremendous amount of time to the equation, you just need to do things smarter.

--Robert

This is obviously a kid that still lives with his parents. What happens when goes away to college?
I agree with what you said, but your an adult with your own money and probably your own place. Therefore you can have and provide for as many monitors as you'd like. Guess I should have clarified that.

This is where everything you say will be twisted for arguemnets sake. Why he went to defensive mood i guess he can or can;t explain but heck i'll give you your head back lol.. Robert Bushner try waking up on the left side of the bed..

'I believe quality of maintenance goes down with the amount of herps you own'

I asked what he was talking about, if you have a problem with that, then it is your problem, not mine. I know people with a huge number of monitors and I would put money on their care being better than any here provide.

Since you mention people saying things for argument's sake, what exactly was the purpose of your post?

--Robert

Robert i don't care if you know 2,000 people who keep monitors better than anyone on this board. Does that make you feel like a man?
The person offered her advice in a calm way and you blow in like you woke up as i said before on the left side of the bed..
Yes it is
You don't agree, wonderful lets shut down the herp world because Mr. Bushner is unhappy with a comment..
Remember it's the right side not the left (laughing at you)..

So if the advice is offered in a nice way, it doesn't matter if it is wrong or misleading?

You have presented nothing to the contrary of what I said, only attacks.

How exactly are you contributing? What exactly is your point?

--Robert

First, now you know how I feel. You are biting the very same tribble(trouble) hook I bit into. Many of these people are not here about monitors. They do not care if the information is good or not. They are here to socialize and position themselves. Remember, they only care about how its said, not what is said. That simply means its about them, not monitors. If it was about monitors, they would not care how it was said.

They are not here to help their charges, they come to help themselves. And yes, I knew this all along. So please do not let them bother you. They are not about monitor husbandry. Also, don't let them effect your monitor breeding efforts, remember, they will only buy the cheapest of monitors. So they will never buy one of yours. F

Frank explain how the previous posts have anything to do with your comments. I thought so it doesn't. Isn't there a montior you should be communicating with?
In this forum i understand your one of the knowledgable people but to others your no more than someone who spends too much time in the sun.
You know if you leave, life will go on. I know you feel your important to some here but fortunately not all. The world of reptiles will continue when you go and i guess that's why you continue to stay as this is the place that makes you feel relevant. Here's an idea try it and see if it happens or will you be replaced sooner rather than later.
But because he didn't get his coffee rips someone. I like how someone aks a simple question and you and monitor man get excited.. Because you post your mystery answers to peoples comments won't allow you to say what ever and not get a reponse.
Glad to see this was important enough to pull you out of the cages to respond with more of your banter..
Remeber Frank its not about us it's about the monitors hmmm sound like a good movie of the week..
Don't like what someone says here to bad.
Don't want to give info? Don't.
Stop saying thats why i don't repond to posts.
You don't like it good don't asnwer (see your comments every post though)..

Put your keyboard down young keyboard warrior. Why don't you use these forums as a learning tool instead of attacking people because you don't like their tone hahahahahahahahahaha. Instead of coming here why don't you go tell your mom. I am sure she cares. You know nothing of Robert or Frank. You offer no help or suggestions "from experience" which they do. You rely on how fast you can type. But be forwarned ther are some here who's keyboard kung fu is better than yours. Especially those who have experience, pictures, and piles of evidence to bury you. But go on young wolf male, howl at the moon size up the alphas, and smell your own piss. But in reality they will only respond to you for so long as you are of no value, no help, and are just someone needing attention.
Alan Stevens
P.S. How do you like my karate chop action

The same way robert attacked someone i said something.. You don't like it to bad.
I see your commenting on me is offering some important info.
Don't respond if it bothers you so much.
I guess calling me a kid should hurt. I wonder what it makes you for reponding to a "quote kid???
Someone disagrees with monitor whisperer and he's a kid, hmmm sounds logical..

Lmfao

First, I was responding directly to Robert, not you. Second, I really do not know if it was about you or not, only you can validated that(i guess you did)

And last, you simply should follow you last section of your post and not respond or read my posts or followups. You have proved they are not for you.

Really sir, I only read Roberts not yours, why on earth would I read yours????? The reason I read Roberts is, hes an intelligent caring person and I enjoy his effort and his posts. I would not want his posts to stop, for the likes of those who do not care about monitors and only care about the games they play. You continuing this thread only validates you as one of them. Thanks F

Yes Robert it was taught as kids and suppose to follow us as adults. Remember treat others as you would want them to treat you?
I guess saying I disagree with that and heres my take on it was to much for you to do.
As for you answering a question with a question is non reponsive.
That is all for now and i will let you go back to communicating with the monitors so you can let us know what's upsetting them
and what there feeling..

I would prefer to be answered and corrected with the truth. I don't need to be validated here, I don't look for people being nice to me here. I would have left a long time ago if that was the case.

I know for a fact that my monitor's conditions have only improved as I added monitors. So for someone to say the opposite is true, it is my right to respond otherwise. Especially, because I feel keeping a monitor alone is not a very nice thing to do to a monitor, but in captivity alot of the things that are done are for selfish reasons. No big deal, but do not think or say it is better for the monitors. That was the topic of this sub-thread, and you have what to add?? Do you have any experience, comments on this?? Any monitors?? If you want to correct me please do, but stop your whining and talk about MONITORS.

--Robert

I will and can post what i want. If i don't agree with you i will state that.
I like how when i have the nerve to respond to you self appointed monitor guru i'm a kid..
I guess we can name call all day but what's that make you.
If you want to talk about monitors great ,if you want to be an (fill in the blank) go for it. By the way i didn't jump down someones throat for a simple comment that was you "kid".
For the record i'm 34 if that makes me a kid great..
Don't reply and this ends keep replying then saying i'm not talking about monitors is a little a-- backwards..

well put Robert... That is exactly what i was wondering, what the heck does this guy keep. Does he have any monitors or know a single thing about monitors, or is he just forum patrol, going around and "punishing" those with tones he doesn't agree with or to those that have knowledge that is beyond him. This guy has not mentioned a monitor once, so maybe he should start posting in the 'human emotions' forum. It really doesn't matter to me where he posts, as long as it's useful and in this case it was the most useless post I have seen (well one of them). Well back to the subject matter. While more monitors require more work than one (common sense), it does not mean that those monitors are not being cared for at the same level. Not that it really matters anyway, those that keep one monitor (sav or nile) will not be here in a month or so. They will go back to bearded dragons or leopard geckos...(nothing against those species) after they kill there monitors. Sorry for the rambling... just pisses me off to see people arguing for the sake of arguing when it doesn't involve them, or even a monitor (which is the important part of this.)

R_Hilo

"I believe quality of maintenance goes down with the amount of herps you own"

Robert,

I guess he is stating the more you own the less you will care for them, or be able to handle the upkeep of them. I find that a poor staetment. As he puts in there YOU own. So by saying this he must be psychic cause how would he know what is going to happen if you have 1 charge or 50 charges. Some people yes even kids are ready for responsability. We should only give advice on something loosly not so direct that we assume what they will or will not do.

Your thoughts? Oh and don't feel bad or let people on here get to you. Keep up the good work.

Ra_tzu if you had some other thoughts when saying this statement above please feel free to chime in.

jusmebabe if you feel the need to sling words feel free but please keep it about monitors. Also feel free to chime in at anytime.

I think (if the person is up to it and willing to learn/improve) that husbandry should improve with experience (ie more monitors). I know it's true in my case, and I suspect it in many others. I think money is more of a concern than time, they just do not need constant maintainence, throw food in, clean water and let them be. If considerable time should be spent on anything it is on enclosures and what is inside them (the environment). But having more monitors makes that easier not harder.

Thanks Jody,

--Robert

Keeping it about monitors like I had asked and was getting at. Seems your the only one with a reason to back up your opinions.

I amglad to see your post as it will actually serve a purpose and be helpful to someone.

Now if everyone could keep it in there pants so to speak and keep it real and about monitors.

boy named sue

What exactly are you getting at with that one? I was merely trying to keep this discussion about monitors. You have taken it out of context. I wanted to hear your thoughts on why you feel more monitors means less quality of maintenance?

Robert had managed to reply and take it back to being about monitors why can't you? This is a place to learn by his reply he has made an effort to come to an intelligent decision. Now I asked you to post your thoughts on this too. You chose not to? Why is that did you not have a reason for saying what you did? Now you only make excuses on well I didn't mean it this way or that way. That to me is funny.

Again I wonder what your getting at with the above statement you made. I would hope your old and wise enough not to be directing name calling towards me. I got over that whole you gotta girls name in grade school. (remember while I am over it I do not take kindly to it)

This was in no way intended for you. I was just listening to Johnny Cash when I wrote this. A boy named sue was the song that was playing.You know you cant post messages on KS without writing messages in the message box. Now I notice your name is Jody and your a guy. Please take no offense it is purely coincedence.

So i state my opinion like others do i'm slinging words?
But when the 2 people you look up to do it it's called what?
I choose to let it be as i said what i had to say.
Because those above talk down to people does not mean (fill in the blank)to me.
If i have an opinion i will state it regardless of what you say (and you are?).
Now i will let this thread be unless another genious chooses to chime in about my posts.
Did i sling enough for you jody???

"So i state my opinion like others do i'm slinging words?"

When your opinions have nothing to do with helping out the person who started this or leads to not talking about a monitor at all or doesn't even include the word in it then yes.

"But when the 2 people you look up to do it it's called what?"

What 2 people are you talking about? I never said I looked upto anyone on here. But since you asked There are 2 people I look upto. 1 is my father (god rest his sole) and 2 is my Mother

"I choose to let it be as i said what i had to say."
Then let it be already and stop asking questions or asking us to reply!

"Because those above talk down to people does not mean (fill in the blank)to me."
"If i have an opinion i will state it regardless of what you say (and you are?)."
Thats fine feel free to state what you like I just asked to keep it about monitors is all instead of ranting like a troll about nonsense.

"Now i will let this thread be unless another genious chooses to chime in about my posts."

Thanks for calling us all a genius (means so much coming from you) LOL

"Did i sling enough for you jody???"
Yeah I have had quite enough so anytime feeel free to stop.

Glad you look up to someone..
As you saw i left it alone yet you felt the need to mention me. Keep my name out of your mouth and you don't have to deal with it. Keep adding your funny comments and we can do this.
I guess you forgot "It's about the monitors" or you would not mention me..
THE END

and didn't have time to answer your question. What you missed is that this is a kid that just got a savannah recently and is a complete newbie to monitors. Im a newbie myself with monitors but have owned and kept reptiles since I was 7. It seemed to me that he was going to buy it on impulse.I was just telling him to concentrate on his pet savannah till he gets more familiar with them and is sure he is ready to commit to another one. I have done it myself, years back, were I was buying a new pet every two weeks.Reptiles can be like crack. Due to my other responsibilities, I wasn't able to keep up with them. I think this happens frequently with reptiles. If the kid is just starting to learn about his first monitor why would I encourage him to buy another one. But its relative to the person keeping them.

Robert you asked me
Quality of maintenance???What in the heck does that mean? I would think it would be MUCH more important to provide 'quality of life',

main·te·nance ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mnt-nns)
n.
The act of maintaining or the state of being maintained.
The work of keeping something in proper condition; upkeep.

Provision of support or livelihood: took over the maintenance of her family.
Means of support or livelihood: was ordered to pay maintenance for both children.
Law. The unlawful meddling in a suit by providing either party with the means to carry it on.
Main"te*nance, n. [OF. maintenance. See Maintain.] 1. The act of maintaining; sustenance; support; defense; vindication.

If I spot check my enclosure isn't that maintenance? If I feed my monitor, isnt that maintenance. How about keeping a steady supply of rodents for them. Having enough space in the freezer. Having to buy an extra freezer. Reading monitor related literature, to help me better understand. Providing the proper sized enclosure. Building it properly so you are able to hold, heat ,humidity and so on.Providing the proper amount of temps ,substrate etc. Checking your monitor for anything out of the ordinary. Taking it to the vet if its sick.All of that is maintenance.
If your quality of maintenance is poor then quality of life is poor and vice versa.

Just an example.Whats easier cleaning 2 cages well or 1 cage well?

I'm sure, no I'm positive that owning alot of monitors for "some" people makes quality of life for them(monitors) go up. As they start to get more and more into it.Hell some people in these forums almost have zoos, and do it very well. But those people are a small percentage.

Read my initial post and then read between the lines. I was simply telling him to slow down and think about it a bit.

Im sorry if that all that really caught my attention, but its too true. Its way too easy to get hooked. I find this especially true with people just starting out. Its all so exciting. You just want more and more and more and...

np

I know the definition of maintenance, I do not understand what quality maintenance is. I understand why you would caution he/she away from it, but I do not get why you would use a false statement to do it.

You said and I quote
'I believe quality of maintenance goes down with the amount of herps you own'

That is an all encompassing statement that is just plain wrong, that is all I am saying. But, it seems you have retracted it, so be it.

Oops, gouldii in a cage that my male jobiensis was in, and I didn't clean it. Hmmm, it was busy for hours searching around, do you think it would be better if it didn't smell like another monitor?

--Robert

You sound pissed off.
I didn't retract, I explained my point of view. Hey you win, youre the best.

You should have a separate cage to put that one in should they not get along. Be careful on introductions with them as they can attack and damage one another quickly. The only way to find out is to try it but Id try to find one close in size, its alot safer. If you find one to introduce and they get along you will see the bond they develop rather quickly in almost all of their normal behaviors. I intro'd a large (4 ft) male and a female that was only 16 inches (man was I nervous), in their case it worked and he was very gentle with her throughout their lives (except when his big butt stepped on her), he died from some lousey choices in decisions with his husbandry years later (deworming and subpar husbandry combined) he was 5 or so years old. She died a year later, she acted different after he was dead as if she didnt care to live without him.

Why is everyone fighting? I dont really know what everyone is fighting about but c'mon guys, I asked a question thats all. This is a monitor forum not a bar room made for brawls. C'mon guys, we are all humans and we are all on the same side, we are all American citizens, no need to fight...
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My Savannah Monitor Jango's Statistics:

Size: 22"
Weight: 2 pounds
Ambient Temps: 88 degrees
Bask Spot Temps: 102 degrees
Night time Temps: 72 degrees
Diet: Thawed 3 inch mice and other meat products
Tank: 6x3x3 Enclosure
Age: 14 Months (his size is small for his age but he is starting to catch up shedding at 2 times a month!)

Hello, Ppk If you should listen to anyones advice it would be Shvar's. He's trying to give you good advice, and he has experience to back it up. Don't worry about all this crap that was included in your post. It's funny, you have questions frequently, but most of your questions go unanswered.Some energies are constantly going in the wrong direction. I wish I had enough monitor knowledge, to guide you properly.
Best of luck!

I answer questions as they do, and we all have bad days. Robert and myself and Jody and the rest of us are all learning constantly from our animals because no one else knows them but themselves, FR is good at explaining what they want and need and has alot of experience and knowledge, get past the attitude that may seem to be in his posts (85% of the time its not actually there) and read it carefully because some day it all starts to mean something to you and piece together in your mind. Once you see a monitor female cycle you will realize that he is one of the best sources for what happens afterwards as far as experience and knowledge. Hopefully though, when that time comes you will recognize it when it happens, and the animal is set up to be able to do what should come naturally.

You can't assume everyone you meet on KS is an American citizen, there are quite a few active posters here from other countries.
At any rate the arguement had absolutely nothing to do with you. I've sort of been wondering the same thing myself lately, but it's easy for me to find an adult Timor, which circumvents the size issue. My problem would be having room to seperate them if they didn't get along, and whether or not to breed.
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Peter: It's OK, I'll handle it. I read a book about something like this.
Brian: Are you sure it was a book? Are you sure it wasn't NOTHING?