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Familiarity Breeds Disinterest?

pyromaniac Mar 09, 2011 10:12 AM

If a pair of colubrid snakes are kept together all year round will they still breed? I have a friend who has a pair of Okeetee corn snakes who have been together since they were hatched, and in the 16 years since have never bred.

I was told if the male can always smell the female he gets used to her smell and does not get stimulated to breed.

This has nothing to do with my kings, who are very horny! LOL!
-----
Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

Replies (52)

rtdunham Mar 09, 2011 10:31 AM

I'd bet it's not a true pair

pyromaniac Mar 09, 2011 12:01 PM

I'd bet it's not a true pair
It's a male and a female, siblings.
-----
Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

markg Mar 09, 2011 02:36 PM

Perhaps the female is not interested in this male - e.g. the chemical cues are just not right for her.

It has been theorized that in nature, the females will select males of slightly different genetic makeup, and this is done by smell and possible unknown chemical cues. So even within a tight population of somewhat related snakes, a female may choose one male over another. Well, they do choose. It is the "why" that is the theory.

A friend of mine had two locality rosies, and I do not remember how or if the two rosies were related . At any rate, the female was not receptive to that male. Just to see, my friend put in a w/c rosy in the cage, and the female immediately let the w/c rosy breed with her. So they do choose.
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Mark

Bluerosy Mar 09, 2011 09:36 PM

Mark
I have seen females with spurs. So maybe they were two females.
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www.Bluerosy.com

markg Mar 10, 2011 02:57 PM

Good point. Could very well be.

On that note, my first breeding of rosies was two young "females" kept together for almost an entire year. I knew nothing about rosies. One day in September, I found two tiny babies in the cage, and a third in the hide with the adults. All were fine, just very little. Blew my mind. My introduction to breeding rosies. Step one, check if one is a male and the other is a female, which I did not do. Step 2, place them together. Thats about it.

Looking back, I was keeping those rosies in a rack with colubrids, at the famed 82 deg. Not a great thing to do do a pregnant female rosy. She was fine though. In later years when I provided higher temps, her babies were much more chubby, though so was she.
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Mark

DMong Mar 09, 2011 10:42 AM

Well, there are exceptions to just about anything regarding animals and nature. But even though the snakes are kept together all year round, if they were "cycled" properly with a gradually reduced photo-period and lower temps, the female would/should still smell very attractive due to her developing pheromones at the peak of the breeding season.

In all honesty, I don't really think that because one person claimed that there was no interest from an adult pair they have been keeping together for years that it necessarily means this happens to most all snakes in general.

When you figure that there are countless females that won't allow a certain male to breed with them, yet WILL readily accept a different male to mate with them, this just verifies that all snakes are simply not instinctively compatible for whatever reason(s). Same thing with certain males having no interest in certain females too.

Bottom line is, who really knows precisely why his corns will never breed. Is he even cycling them?, or simply keeping them at a constant photo-period and temperature all year long?

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

pyromaniac Mar 09, 2011 12:06 PM

This pair of snakes were sort of an "inheritance" from the former owner when my friend bought his pet store. She has had them for a few years. I don't think anybody ever cycled them. The male got quite fat and looked like a sausage until my friend managed to gradually slim him down over a period of two years.

So they were never as far as I know ever given optimum breeding conditions, although they certainly were not starved! LOL!
-----
Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

Bigtattoo Mar 09, 2011 01:00 PM

I picked up a pair of corns years ago. The folks had them together for 12 years and nothing. I picked them up in the spring, brought them home and bingo, 14 good eggs. Never really understood why after being together all those years and nothing. No cycling had ever been done with these either.

But a thought came to mind from breeding parrots. Sometimes a pair of parrots would not do anything. Pack them into a small animal carrier and take them for a ride then they would breed. Only theory I could come up with regarding those corns. Nothing else was different other than the ride and the location. The peeps gave me the whole shebang, enclosure, snakes, furniture everything.

Maybe his snakes need to take a little road trip. :D
-----
BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
1.2 P. m. melanoleucus B/W N. J. Northern Pines
1.2 P. d. deppei Mexican Pines
2.2 P. l. lineaticollis Linis or Lined Pines
1.2 P. m. lodingi Black Pines
0.3 P. c. sayi red bulls
1.1 Drymarchon melenurus Blacktail Cribo
1.2 D. corais Yellowtail Cribos
1.2 M. s. cheynei Jungle Carpet
2.6 L. p. pyromelana Arizona Mt. Kings
1.1 L. g. californiae B/W Cali kings
0.0.3 M. f. flagellum Eastern Coachwhips
1.2 G. m. bottegoi Western Plated lizards

DMong Mar 09, 2011 02:05 PM

Yeah, much better to not breed than to be starved..LOL!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

DISCERN Mar 10, 2011 12:21 AM

My old snake breeding partner in the nineties had a pair of Western hognose snakes. They were a sexual pair, and they never bred. He kept them together year round, and they never bred. Even brumated at times. This went on for years.

Finally, the female ate the male one day.

So, the moral of the story is:

Sometimes snakes just do things differently than what we expect them to. To say that they are supposed to breed if kept in the optimal conditions, if housed together so they can have a lifelong marital friendship ( LOL! ), is still a preconceived notion/formula expected by our limited understanding. I am completely surprised that the pair of hogs DIDN'T breed, as was my friend, but sometimes, the animal kingdom throws us a curve ball.

Good topic!

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Genesis 1:1

tspuckler Mar 09, 2011 03:20 PM

I'd have someone recheck the sex of the snakes. I've been breeding Corn Snakes for 20 years and they'll breed at the drop of a hat. I've seen quite a few mis-sexed snakes over the years and I would be surprised if it wasn't a male/female pair.

Having said that, some snakes simply don't seem to like each other.

But to answer your "familiarity" question, these Black Pines have been kept together for 12 years - here's a pic of them breeding last month:

They've been consistant breeders for well over a decade.

Here's a pic of my Russian Rat Snakes. They've been kept in the same cage for three years. They produced in 2009 and 2010. Here's a photo I took of them breeding yesterday:

These Santa Cruz Garters have been together in the same setup for three years. They produced last year and in 2009. Here's a photo of them breeding that I took yesterday:

Tim
Third Eye

Jlassiter Mar 10, 2011 12:40 AM

Great pics Tim......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

pyromaniac Mar 10, 2011 10:03 AM

I mean to answer this post and forgot...
At what ages did you put the various pairs together? By the way, very interesting photos!
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

JTColubrids Mar 09, 2011 03:32 PM

He should have a decent amount to say on this subject I would imagine...

a153fish Mar 09, 2011 03:48 PM

This is not always the case. I have kept Corns together for many years and they have always bred. I tend to keep them separately now, but I do sometimes keep a few pairs together.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

mbrawley Mar 09, 2011 06:29 PM

I suppose it might be true. Sometimes this can happen in a marriage too.

pyromaniac Mar 09, 2011 09:14 PM

I suppose it might be true. Sometimes this can happen in a marriage too.

Maybe some couples need a little assistance...LOL!
-----
Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

varanid Mar 09, 2011 10:56 PM

If it does, buy some costumes and toys :D
-----
We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

mbrawley Mar 10, 2011 12:00 AM

Hahahaha! Not with me....I'm just sayin'. LOL!!!

Bluerosy Mar 09, 2011 10:16 PM

That's just bazarre. Bonding plays a major part in successful breeding. But it is missed or passed by in the hobby. Just like nesting is another thing herpetoculturist(s) passes by. Instead unwary herpetoculturists put two snakes together at breeding time in hopes that they will bond in time to breed. In nature these snakes spend time together . Some year round. They don't just "happen" onto each other. Even if they do it is usually a male following a scent trail of a known female he may have bred in previous years or spent time in holes and rockpiles or brumating together over winter (*depending on the species and geography the ecology may vary).

Nesting is another integral IMPORTANT part of snake herpetoculture.. And it is also another major part herpetoculturists overlook. They throw in a shoebox a week or less into a cage and then the snake are supposed to nest in that period??....And most of the time a shoebox is hardly what a snake would choose as a nesting site. They like to feel compressed under something and where the eggs will be safe. not in a 5" high shoebox. So what happens the poor snake holds onto the eggs as long as possible (usually dehydrated and miserable because the "herpetoculturist' removes all water bowls in fear of her laying in them. And then the poor snake dumps her eggs all over the box. YAYA! Congratulations you are now an expert "BREEDER" ! NOT!!!

So, my take on these two cornskanks not breeding is that we just don't KNOW what the prior husbandry was of these snakes. I have seen guys keep snakes at 72F thinking this was warm enough for them to eat and digest. I have seen all sorts of crazy ways and things that people do to keep snakes. Most of it has to do with the snakes are not doing what the keeper thinks they should do. O rbe doing. LOL! Even an overfed/obese female cannot pass the sperm past her fat deposits because they are stored around her ovum.So fat does not make healthy either..

So what I am getting at is there are tons of possibilities why they did not breed. And they are all the keepers fault. Not the snakes. But without seeing and knowing the setup and condition of the snakes- feeding schedule , temp, encloser ect ett...it would be foolish to speculate that these snakes did not take because they are used to each other and are tired of each others presence.. The opposite would be true and make them breed. Also it would be foolish to suggest why they did not breed. Because there are as many suggestions as there are possibilities of what the heck people are doing with captive snake in a box.

Also, we can't compare sex between a sexed pair of snakes to humans- (who get tired of each others faces after they have been together for a while) . Snakes aren't like that. Most N. American colubrids live in holes and are fossorial most of their lives. Their main purpose is to survive and succesfully reproduce. That is how they are wired. All they do is search for the perfect heat and humidity and BREED. That's it.

Things don't get handed to them on a platter. It is "do it" or die. Keeping them in a tank or box, well there must be something wrong with the keeper. The snakes are not to blame. Nor does one snake blame the other and then site irreconciable differences. Only humans do that. Only humans do things against the natural order.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Jlassiter Mar 09, 2011 10:47 PM

Great post Rainer......Not bad for an old guy.......LOL
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

mbrawley Mar 10, 2011 12:40 AM

Yes Rainer, John's right - great post! And I agree with u, it's definitely the "Keeper's" fault.

mbrawley Mar 10, 2011 12:40 AM

Yes Rainer, John's right - great post! And I agree with u, it's definitely the "Keeper's" fault.

varanid Mar 09, 2011 10:58 PM

*cough gimp mask cough*
-----
We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

thomas davis Mar 10, 2011 09:49 AM

>>>The snakes are not to blame.

statements like that dont SIT WELL round here.
great post amigo,,,,,,,,,thomas
-----
Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

willstill Mar 10, 2011 10:15 AM

You brought up a few of the more important points often ignored with the cookie cutter/caresheet mentality that is so common in herpetoculture. Thanks.

Will

pyromaniac Mar 10, 2011 10:20 AM

That's just bazarre. Bonding plays a major part in successful breeding. But it is missed or passed by in the hobby. Just like nesting is another thing herpetoculturist(s) passes by. Instead unwary herpetoculturists put two snakes together at breeding time in hopes that they will bond in time to breed. In nature these snakes spend time together . Some year round. They don't just "happen" onto each other. Even if they do it is usually a male following a scent trail of a known female he may have bred in previous years or spent time in holes and rockpiles or brumating together over winter (*depending on the species and geography the ecology may vary).

Nesting is another integral IMPORTANT part of snake herpetoculture.. And it is also another major part herpetoculturists overlook. They throw in a shoebox a week or less into a cage and then the snake are supposed to nest in that period??....And most of the time a shoebox is hardly what a snake would choose as a nesting site. They like to feel compressed under something and where the eggs will be safe. not in a 5" high shoebox. So what happens the poor snake holds onto the eggs as long as possible (usually dehydrated and miserable because the "herpetoculturist' removes all water bowls in fear of her laying in them. And then the poor snake dumps her eggs all over the box. YAYA! Congratulations you are now an expert "BREEDER" ! NOT!!!

So, my take on these two cornskanks not breeding is that we just don't KNOW what the prior husbandry was of these snakes. I have seen guys keep snakes at 72F thinking this was warm enough for them to eat and digest. I have seen all sorts of crazy ways and things that people do to keep snakes. Most of it has to do with the snakes are not doing what the keeper thinks they should do. O rbe doing. LOL! Even an overfed/obese female cannot pass the sperm past her fat deposits because they are stored around her ovum.So fat does not make healthy either..

So what I am getting at is there are tons of possibilities why they did not breed. And they are all the keepers fault. Not the snakes. But without seeing and knowing the setup and condition of the snakes- feeding schedule , temp, encloser ect ett...it would be foolish to speculate that these snakes did not take because they are used to each other and are tired of each others presence.. The opposite would be true and make them breed. Also it would be foolish to suggest why they did not breed. Because there are as many suggestions as there are possibilities of what the heck people are doing with captive snake in a box.

Also, we can't compare sex between a sexed pair of snakes to humans- (who get tired of each others faces after they have been together for a while) . Snakes aren't like that. Most N. American colubrids live in holes and are fossorial most of their lives. Their main purpose is to survive and succesfully reproduce. That is how they are wired. All they do is search for the perfect heat and humidity and BREED. That's it.

Things don't get handed to them on a platter. It is "do it" or die. Keeping them in a tank or box, well there must be something wrong with the keeper. The snakes are not to blame. Nor does one snake blame the other and then site irreconciable differences. Only humans do that. Only humans do things against the natural order.
There is so much content in this post I am just quoting the whole thing verbatim.

In regards to these corn snakes, they have lived in a L: 48.00  W: 24.00  H: 18.00 glass cage for as long as my friend can remember, way before she bought the pet store. They did not get much exercise, hence the male got extremely obese, which would impede mating, I would think. In general, they did not have nice deep substrate, just some newspaper, and small plastic hide boxes. No moist sphagnum moss hides. They did have an UTH. So I think the cage was big enough but it had spartan amenities. The female was a very unfriendly sort, ready to strike any time my friend accessed the cage. I felt sorry for them, as their living arrangement just seemed not snake friendly to me.

-----
Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

varanid Mar 10, 2011 10:37 AM

I look forward to us viewing that sort of thing as belonging to the dark ages while the cage size sounds ok the setup as a whole doesn't.

although I'm apparently still having a hard time figuring out how to set up a good nest box for my house snakes >.< I'm getting worried that either A: one of them's egg bound or B: I'm off on the date (significantly) but she looks like she's gonna blow up and I'm worried about her not having laid her eggs yet.
-----
We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

pyromaniac Mar 10, 2011 11:27 AM

Maybe my above post about my pyros' new lay box setup might help. I try to think what would the snakes do in the wild, and copy that. Maybe in this case you could make the whole floor of the cage a lay box, for awhile.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

varanid Mar 10, 2011 11:56 AM

That's what I'll try tonight when I'm off work.

Of course she ate and crapped just last week so I don't guess it's horrible yet but...still.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

Bluerosy Mar 10, 2011 11:33 AM

one of them's egg bound
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www.Bluerosy.com

Bluerosy Mar 10, 2011 12:15 PM

oops forgot to add my comment to yours. I hit the reply key by accident. Si i will start over.:

"one of them's egg bound "

That could be the case with the fat cornsnake as well. Like i mentioned. Without SEEING the setup and the snake there could be many many reason why the corsn have not bred.

I have seen and had females get eggs bound and retain their aggs for years. The eggs formed hard masses that can block future breeding. I have also had females that retained eggs for 2-3 ears and it took that long for the masses to subside and then they did breed successfully.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Bigtattoo Mar 10, 2011 12:54 PM

That could be the case with the fat cornsnake as well. Like i mentioned. Without SEEING the setup and the snake there could be many many reason why the corsn have not bred.

I have seen and had females get eggs bound and retain their aggs for years. The eggs formed hard masses that can block future breeding. I have also had females that retained eggs for 2-3 ears and it took that long for the masses to subside and then they did breed successfully.

So those egg bound females of yours. That would be "the keeper's" fault, yes?
-----
BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
1.2 P. m. melanoleucus B/W N. J. Northern Pines
1.2 P. d. deppei Mexican Pines
2.2 P. l. lineaticollis Linis or Lined Pines
1.2 P. m. lodingi Black Pines
0.3 P. c. sayi red bulls
1.1 Drymarchon melenurus Blacktail Cribo
1.2 D. corais Yellowtail Cribos
1.2 M. s. cheynei Jungle Carpet
2.6 L. p. pyromelana Arizona Mt. Kings
1.1 L. g. californiae B/W Cali kings
0.0.3 M. f. flagellum Eastern Coachwhips
1.2 G. m. bottegoi Western Plated lizards

mbrawley Mar 10, 2011 01:23 PM

YES! That's exactly what I said. Hahahahaha! The "Keeper's" fault....it AlWAYS is.

DISCERN Mar 10, 2011 01:38 PM

.
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Genesis 1:1

Bluerosy Mar 10, 2011 10:52 PM

So those egg bound females of yours. That would be "the keeper's" fault, yes?

Well with hundreds of snakes and breeding for 40 years i did see my share of mistakes. But we did not have the information Hwy that we have today. Most of the stuff we did was by learing from the snakes and not some recipe book. You kind of learn from the snakes and get a green thumb.

But I don't fret with egg bound females. I didn't them run to a vet. I don't lose sleep at night.I don't go posting all over the internet. LOL! I just kept feeding them and waiting (sometimes FOR YEARS). Matter of fact those females are breeding and producing eggs again. All I did was wait and had patience.

..And that is another thing i see prevelant in the hobby today. I just wait it out. You have to have patience when keeping snakes. For example, if a neonate is a finicky eater during winte. Just offer a cool side and then it comes out eating like a champ in the spring. By mid summer those tiny finicky feeders sometimes end up surpassing in growth those that have been feeding all winter.

But what i don't do is keep trying to feed them. Or Force feed them. Or forcing them to stay warm all winter and trying over and over. i just know that they will eat and grow like they are on steroids come spring.

Once you learn these things and know the outcome. Then, well we would not have much to talk about here, would we?
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www.Bluerosy.com

Bigtattoo Mar 11, 2011 03:44 AM

Well with hundreds of snakes and breeding for 40 years i did see my share of mistakes. But we did not have the information Hwy that we have today. Most of the stuff we did was by learing from the snakes and not some recipe book. You kind of learn from the snakes and get a green thumb.

I would have been more impressed had you just stopped here with your reply.

But I don't fret with egg bound females. I didn't them run to a vet. I don't lose sleep at night.I don't go posting all over the internet. LOL! I just kept feeding them and waiting (sometimes FOR YEARS). Matter of fact those females are breeding and producing eggs again. All I did was wait and had patience.

But no you have to inflate your ego some more by pointing out how superior you are to the rest of us. I highly doubt you would have the humility it would take to admit losing a snake and post about it. Possibly suggesting where you may have made your mistakes and humbly asking others their opinions/thoughts on what you may have done wrong. You're always to busy stroking your own ego.

..And that is another thing i see prevelant in the hobby today. I just wait it out. You have to have patience when keeping snakes. For example, if a neonate is a finicky eater during winte. Just offer a cool side and then it comes out eating like a champ in the spring. By mid summer those tiny finicky feeders sometimes end up surpassing in growth those that have been feeding all winter.

But what i don't do is keep trying to feed them. Or Force feed them. Or forcing them to stay warm all winter and trying over and over. i just know that they will eat and grow like they are on steroids come spring.

Once you learn these things and know the outcome. Then, well we would not have much to talk about here, would we?

Case in point about stroking your own ego. What does this have to do with this particular thread on compatibility? Just another of your ego stroking, long winded, diatribes on how great thou art.

Reading your posts I always get the impression we should all just pack up our snakes and ship them to you because none of us are in possession of your superior knowledge and skills. Then you can keep them safe from us up there in your ivory tower.

The sad fact of the matter is you do have a great knowledge base and a lot you could share. But you always have to lambaste anyone who has a problem, a question or seeking guidance.

Why is it you feel the need to try to make everyone else seem so inferior to you instead of sharing your knowledge in a constructive way?

BTW I've also been keeping reptiles for over 40 years. I will openly admit I don't know everything there is to know. I've lost a few animals along the way and identify my mistakes and learn from them. I'm still learning today which is part of the reason I come to these forums.

I doubt you have the humility to admit that you don't know it all which will probably be exemplified in your response to this post.
-----
BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
1.2 P. m. melanoleucus B/W N. J. Northern Pines
1.2 P. d. deppei Mexican Pines
2.2 P. l. lineaticollis Linis or Lined Pines
1.2 P. m. lodingi Black Pines
0.3 P. c. sayi red bulls
1.1 Drymarchon melenurus Blacktail Cribo
1.2 D. corais Yellowtail Cribos
1.2 M. s. cheynei Jungle Carpet
2.6 L. p. pyromelana Arizona Mt. Kings
1.1 L. g. californiae B/W Cali kings
0.0.3 M. f. flagellum Eastern Coachwhips
1.2 G. m. bottegoi Western Plated lizards

thomas davis Mar 11, 2011 06:21 AM

farout

geez your as bitter as a green lemon

rainer i didnt know you lived in a tower???

,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
-----
Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

Bluerosy Mar 11, 2011 06:58 AM

I live up in a tower or under a bridge depending on what their pyschotherapist tell them.
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www.Bluerosy.com

a153fish Mar 11, 2011 06:13 PM

....Boss
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

thomas davis Mar 11, 2011 09:46 PM

?
-----
Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

Bluerosy Mar 11, 2011 07:02 AM
pyromaniac Mar 11, 2011 09:19 AM

Wow, Bigtattoo, I did not get at all offended by Bluerosy's post, and I am notorious for having a thin skin! Also am still in my own opinion a newbie, and anybody who has extensive experience with snake husbandry and is willing to share it is welcome, even if they may seem pompous and egocentric to some. FR is another one who draws flack for being egocentric but I value his input none the less. We should get our bundies in a bunch when there is so much to learn...if these experienced folks said screw it and never posted here again this to me would be a great loss.
-----
Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

Bluerosy Mar 13, 2011 07:42 PM
pyromaniac Mar 13, 2011 07:48 PM


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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

pyromaniac Mar 10, 2011 07:36 PM

I don't think that (egg bound) is the case with this male corn snake! LOL!
He was so fat he felt "squishy" or "flabby". My friend put him on a diet and got him down to a more healthy weight.
-----
Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

varanid Mar 10, 2011 11:57 AM

The set up I was using: I found a solid color (green) smallish rubbermaid that I melted a hole in and stuffed about 2/3s full of moist sphagnum. She hasn't even looked in it yet that I can tell
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

FR Mar 10, 2011 12:05 PM

There is a biological series of events, the female must form ovum, then she must emitt pheromones to intice the male to copulation. AND she must cloacal gape, in order to have successful breedings.

In nature, the males attend the female for many weeks to months before copulation. So they are indeed familiar with the female.

We are seeing that right now with wild pairs. Cheers

pyromaniac Mar 11, 2011 03:27 PM

Maybe the male corn is sterile?
Sometimes that happens. I have been breeding mice for a few years now, hundreds of robust fertile mice, but today had to cull out a male who had not ever gotten one single female in his harem pregnant after two months of opportunity.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

rtdunham Mar 11, 2011 11:17 PM

>> In nature, the males attend the female for many weeks to months before copulation. So they are indeed familiar with the female.

Frank, I wish you'd tell more here about your field observations. I can't even imagine being able to follow a male for weeks or months, to observe him courting the same female throughout that period. To have done so so many times as to be able to generalize about it is fantastic. You know how cool it is to read the old Kauffield & etc. herping books? It'd be cool like that to read about what species you followed, and how you were able to observe them throughout such periods, etc. Share those stories with us!

Bluerosy Mar 12, 2011 08:03 AM

I beleive the area FR is talking about is on his land and he goes off everyday on quad runners.

he is living the dream.
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www.Bluerosy.com

rtdunham Mar 15, 2011 09:47 PM

>>I beleive the area FR is talking about is on his land and he goes off everyday on quad runners.
>>
>>he is living the dream.

I wish he'd share some of the stories with us! Let us live vicariously.

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