Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My lower thread below was a one time thing just to let everyone know. So I have a question. Are Floridana more likely to over eat in captivity then other kings. I have two milks and one of them switched over to pinkie rats. The other still wants mice. You know how big peach fuzzie mice are, well for his size he should be able to take two peaches. But when I feed him he will take one and leave the other. I leave the fuzzie in over night and it's still there in the morning. So he only eats the one. Now mind you he did take one pinkie rat one time, then decided that he just wanted mice. That's why I went with two peach fuzzies mice. 2 peach fuzzies about same weight as a pinkie rat.
When I feed i do it about every four to five days. I have a spreadsheet on each snake. I keep track of feedings, sheds when they go into shed and come out of shed. I really do know how to take care of my snakes. And when I feed I really don't over feed them. I like to see them crawl around looking for food. I think it helps give them some exercise. In closing I read all the threads on here, take all comments people have and decide what works for me. Because you can get from one extreme to the other extreme. But how else to you gain knowledge of the thing you love. I also read everything I can. I had a great guy tell me once you should never stop learning. He bought a Baby Grand Piano to learn how to play he was 72.
Thanks for reading
Tom S

May i ask if there is a reason why you tried to switch them to rats? Is it in anticipation of when they are adults and it would be easier to feed them 1 rat, rather than 2-3 mice? Is it for nutritional reasons? I'm just curious... not criticizing. Thanks!

The reason is, I was hoping to switch everything over to rats. 1. When then get bigger I thought it would help switching them as so as I could. 2. When I ordered my rodents I ordered mice and pinkie rats. ( I had pythons before I switched to kings LOL) I am still learning on the kings. So I have the pinkie rats too. All 300 of them. 3. I thought that once everyone was big and could take rats, I could order 500 or more and it's cheaper, then having some on rats and some on mice. Do they do better with 2 or 3 mice instead of a rat?
Thanks for the input
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Tom S
1.1 Flame Lampropeltis getla Floridana
1.0 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis getula Floridana
0.1 Axanthic Lampropeltis getula Floridana
0.1 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis
1.0 Anerythristic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis

Yeah, what you're saying about cost and inventory makes sense.

"Do they do better with 2 or 3 mice instead of a rat?"
I think everyone has a different opinion on that. I'm not looking to grow my snakes as fast as possible, so it doesn't matter to me. As long as they're healthy, then it's all good.

Sorry your post got taken into a different direction about overfeeding. I know you don't do this always, but with advice coming from members to feed them all they want, I thought it was important for people to see there are other views. We condition snakes in captivity and super charge their appetites! I doubt seriously they would encounter six or seven rodents at one sitting in nature. By the time they searched out more food the previous meals would settle in, and they would probably not want more. As for Milk snakes I have found them to be more finicky. Many will only eat small prey rodents, many will eat the bigger ones. It just depends on the species and the individual snake. I am of the opinion that rats are a better more economical way to feed, as I raise my own rodents and I can get a baby rat to the size of an adult mouse way quicker than raising the mouse to that size. Some snakes just don't like rats. I still have a Florida King who bolts out of his cage whenever he smells a rat. Many of them needed to be conditioned by feeding a mouse followed by a rat pinky or fuzzy. I wish all my snakes would take rats, but they don't.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

Jorge I'm not upset about it, I just didn't want people to think I was new to snakes just Kings. Sometimes it's hard to get that across in a post. lol When I had my pythons I still watched what they ate. I would feed my brums two 5 pound rabbits instead of one 10 pound one. I take everything I read on here with a grain of salt. I read all the post, and pull from it what I feel will work for me. Thanks for your input.
Have a great day now off to work for me.
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Tom S
1.1 Flame Lampropeltis getla Floridana
1.0 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis getula Floridana
0.1 Axanthic Lampropeltis getula Floridana
0.1 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis
1.0 Anerythristic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis

Tom,
I would not be so sure that other posters have thought their responses through very well. Is this debate about what is healthiest for the snake? Or what a snake does in the wild? Two contracdictory oposing differences there. In captivity we measure success and health of the animal by how well it reproduces and longevity.

First I should mention the pythons since you mentioned experince with them. Pythons are a completlty different animal compared to kingsnakes. Pythons DO get fat and store fat deposits in captive conditions. As you probably know fat stores in the female pythons ovum quite easily and then during fertilization all the sperm (or none of it) can reach the eggs. At least I know that is a common problem for python breeders. So pythoins do not =equal kingsnakes.

Kingsnake and especially FLORIDA KINGS are a different animal all together. Not only from pythons, but even other kingsnakes.

When you put a Florida king into a box many things change in the care they need compared to what they do (or not do) in the wild. So making a comparisons that some posters made of wildtypes and captive are a not a good foundation or measuring scale or rule of thumb to follow.

Example; several posters mentioned that Florida kings don't eat as much in nature.So WHAT!. Yes it is true.. however there are many reasons for this which I am not going into at length in this post.

However, if you tried emulating what Florida kings do in nature then feeding them the same type foods they eat in nature would also be emulatiing what they do in nature...Yes? ...is that healthy?? >>>..of course not!.

We all agree that if you fed a Florida king other snakes (a mainstay in theoir deit in nature) they would die of overload of parasites. But not so in nature. The main food item of wild kings snakes,lizards, ambphibians ect. Feed them and emulate what they do in nature when you keep them in a box will KILL them in captivity. however in nature they do fine. Why is that?

Okay now about starvation diets (that is what i call them. What people here are suggesting.

Unless you WANT to keep your snake so thin that it cannot even go through the proper bodily functions of developing follicles and ovulating. Then i guess feeding your Florida king less than what it wants makes sense. But it is not healthy for the snake and you certainly won't get any clutches. MUCH LESS @_# CLUTCHES IN A SEASON!

So what is healthy for the snake? Is it emulating nature while keeping them in a box?? is it healthy for women bodybuilders to get fat levles so low it stops therenatural productive system? Some say so..Or what about gymnasts who go off their period?...or bulemics? -they all excerise and are thin. So I guess that makes them healthy?

Okay, okay, i know i am getting off track and a bit extreme. But I just want people to think about what advice they give and why is it so different than mine?. My answer is what is healthy for a snake in the wild is not always healthy for a captive snake.

My opinion is... FEED THE FLORIDA KINGS (expecially females) enough to get them up in size quickly (to grow as fast as possible) because the faster they grow the healthier they will be in the long run and live longer in captivity. Finicky starving snakes don't usually do well in the long term.

Second in captivity it is good to measure success by how well they reproduce. That is usually key in determining the overall health of a snake. If they don't reproduce well, then we are doing something wrong.

lasttly- with me keeping thousands of Florida kings i have come up with the best methods to making them healthy and reproduce. Those did not come by taking others advice. It came from trial and error and over many years. the major keys in that are giving them choices of temps, humidty and WHEN to feed them...which translates to as often as they want. NOT ON A SCHEDULE THAT "WE" THINK IS BEST or some THF book says..

The answer is listen to the Florida kings. they talk better to us than most other species and subspecies of snakes. Other snakes talk to us to. And we need to listen but in a different way sometimes. nOt all are as simple as the bullet proof florida kings.

I used to keep Rosy boas and started taking water bowls away and problems went away. Lyre snakes won't eat unless they can cram themselves into a cereal box packed so tight with cardboard you would never think they could squeeze in there.. So different types of listening for different snakes. But with the Floridanas- we can pretty much trust in what they are saying in plain english. They are a bit more simple in that way and bullet proof- unles you put them on a "starvation diet".
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www.Bluerosy.com

Bluerosy I thanks for the information, I do (listen) to them. Like when I go into a cage and they are all the way down at the bottom of the humidity box, I know they are in shed also I keep records so I know about when they are due to go into shed. When they are not in shed they will lay on top of the cypress not deep down inside. I also look for when the start to come out and crawl around I like it when they due that for a day or two. To me it keeps them a little active. I appreciate the post
Thanks again
Tom S

Remembering that I am still fairly new to this, but feeding every 4 to 5 days isn't that a little to much? Is that unhealthy for them? I read somewhere that young snakes about every 7 and adults about every 10. Just wondering.

It depends. On the species, on age, on the conditions, on if it's a breeding animal or not, on size of prey...there really isn't a once size fits 'em all answer.

My argentine boa is an adult, and eats less than some of my smaller retics. my kings eat more and grow faster than my house snakes.
In general babies eat more relative to body weight than adults of a given species (particularly non breeding adults). but there's a pretty good range of appropriate feeding...
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

I like Varanid's response to you. For example, a 10-yr old male kingsnake does not need as much food (per weight of snake) compared to a young, growing male. Or a female that is to reproduce.

So this "once per so many days" thing is kind of rediculous. The frequency/amount of feeding changes with what the snakes are doing. IMO young growing snakes do best being fed more often. Females, if to be bred, need lots of calories.
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Mark

I have had my kings and Milks since January 4Th, And I have noticed that when I first fed them I gave each of them a pinkie mouse. That was good for that feeding. the next feeding which I waited 5 days for I gave them another pinkie mouse.(I am talking about my kings.) The milks are different they get a fuzzie mouse. Back to the Kings, when I fed them this pinkie mouse it took about one day and they were out looking for more. All four of them, so when I fed them again I up it to 2 pinkies. What I do is watch to see how long it takes them to come out and start looking around. Now I feed every four to five days depending on the snake. Some get a fuzzie mouse and a pinkie. some get 2 fuzzie. I have seen growth spurts in them, As they grow I up the size of prey.
Thanks for your input
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Tom S
1.1 Flame Lampropeltis getla Floridana
1.0 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis getula Floridana
0.1 Axanthic Lampropeltis getula Floridana
0.1 Hypomelanistic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis
1.0 Anerythristic Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis

Sorry Bigtman, If I got off your original post subject , but with all the resent post, got me to thinking that I don't feed my two kings often enough or enough amount wise. One male, born early 2010, One female, late 2010. I feed them every 7 days only because it is most convenient for me. I feed them one pinky a little bit bigger than there biggest part of there body. I have feed the male two pinkies just to see if he could handle it. Didn't have a problem.

I feed them this past Sunday night ( one pinky) Today the male is already out and about. Do you think that is because one pinky wasn't enough? I want to breed them when they get older. I think i will start feeding them two pinkies and every fifth day. What do y'all think.

If it is "out and about" it is searching for 4 things, but only 3 if it is a young snake......Humidity, Temperature or FOOD!
The fourth thing would be looking for a mate but they are youngens.....lol

A growing kingsnake (no matter what kind) will eat at least twice a week.....Feed them when they are "out and about" and you'll see good results.....You will also see them "out and about" at least twice a week depending on your "hot spot."

Most of my 2010s are already on large pinks / peach fuzzies......I would think a 2010 getula would be on fuzzies by now if fed when they were hungry.........instead of Sundays....
But.....To keep this PC......Not everyone has the funds to do this and some have success with this.....I, personally do not like to say it is wrong, but my few years of experience tells me that your snakes a going hungry a few days every week.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

I personally would up the size of the pinks to large pinks or peach fuzzies or even normal fuzzies, if they are big enough to eat them. For younger snakes like yours, I usually feed every 5 days or so, give or take, and have really good growth results.

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Genesis 1:1

My late 2010 Florida king from BHB is already on hoppers...she's like 40 grams or so, so a 8-10 gram hopper is about right for her.

I wouldn't stress too much but maybe move them up to fuzzies...and feed like every 5 days, maybe a bit more if they're cruising after their last meal...
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
1.3 African House Snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
1 corn snake
4.3 Florida Kings
2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
1 Argentine boa
1 Texas Rat Snake
1 checkered garter snake

pictures; the mulch is fresh (just put it in today). She ate 2 fuzzies yesterday; usually she gets a hopper but the fuzzies were easier to get to in my freezer

she is calm handling but she hates the camera; she tried to bite it this time. Dunno why it freaks her out but my hand doesn't.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
1.3 African House Snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
1 corn snake
4.3 Florida Kings
2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
1 Argentine boa
1 Texas Rat Snake
1 checkered garter snake

If your snakes were born early 2010 and they are still feeding on pinkies you need to up the size asap.

let me explain what i do. My kings stay on pinks for the first 3 weeks of their life. After that they are on fuzzies and quicly progress to small mice in a fairly short period of time.

Some of the floridas i hatch are bigger and i start on fuzzies on their very first meal. Feeding pinks will not give the growth spurt that are capable of. They can grow very fast in the first 5-6 months of life.

Pictured below is a nine month old female. She was actually a august hatch. Not an early hatch as yours. I am posting this as an example of what they can be in a short period. I have had some bigger than this in 9 months.

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www.Bluerosy.com

KingDome

What kind of snake do you have? Are we talking about a speckled, calif, eastern, Florida??
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www.Bluerosy.com

They are California kings. The male is white w/two black strips, female is black w/one white stripe. These pictures were taken this past February. I feel really bad that I have not been feeding them properly. I was taking the advice from a local guy that supposedly worked at the zoo. Don't really know his experience.
I'm going out today to buy more mice. Thanks everyone for all the info.

They'll be fine. just bump up the size of the mice.

Cal kings don't grow like the eastern getula do. So yours are not bad size for their age. But definetly time to push them for bigger mice. try a couple fuzzies twice per week and in 2 weeks get some hoppers and that should last them for a month before going to small mice by June.

Don't make the mistake of feeding them fuzzies for months. Try and get as large a mouse into them. If one is too big the kingsnake will simply stop trying to get it down. No harm to the snake. they go after larger meals than they can get past their gullets in nature all the time. But if the snake gets it down it will have a growth spurt and then you will always know it can handle that size mouse. That is success for you and will make you feel better. The nutrients of an more mature mouse with calcium and everything is what it needs. pinkies are mostly made up of water.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Just to let you know where I am with this. In previous post I said i fed my snakes this past Sunday. Strike, (the male) a large pinky. Raven, (the female) a small pinky. I went yesterday (Wed) to buy some fuzzes to feed to Strike and planed on feeding Raven a large pinky that was originally for Strike. Anyway, last night Strike took the fuzzy like he hadn't eaten in weeks. Took him a while to get it down, but he did it and kept it down. Raven on the other hand totally refused the pinky. Then I got to noticing that Raven still had a small budge in her stomach from Sunday. I'm assuming she is not digesting properly. I use over head lamps for heat. So I went out and bought a under the tank heat pad for Raven. I will get one for Strike next week.

It seems like the female of all species are more difficult.. Opps, did I say that out loud. LOL.

I have decided to try this schedule. Feed two appropriate size mice on Sunday and one appropriate size mice on Thursday. That will give them 4 days to digest the bigger load and 3 days to digest the smaller load. Might have to adjust that somewhat. I am so busy right now I am trying to work the snakes around my schedule, but the inevitable will be me working my schedule around the snakes. Which is ok, it's all good. We will see how this goes. Thanks again, have a good day.

DAVY

"Are Floridana more likely to over eat in captivity then other kings?"

That question is hard to answer since it starts out with the assumption that Florida kings can overeat. Kinda an oxymoron.

No Florida kings cannot over eat if growing or producing at least two clutches per season. It is impossble to 'over' feed them.

The problem with captive florida kings i see in collections and at shows is, they are UNDERFED.

Underfed Floridas are epidemic in captivity and the care of people because they compare their growth rate and feeod requirements to other snake species...or sub species.

You can't compare a California Mtn king to a Florida king for instance.
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www.Bluerosy.com