Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So what would everone recommend feeding adult getula kings that are not in any stage of breeding? I work with Eastern Kings and feel mine could use a little more weight. I am feeding them small rats at the moment which they occasionally refuse(especially the females). They are more consistent feeders on mice.

Dan

Depends on the individual snake but at least 3 or 4 mice a week. More if the snake will take it. Maybe 3 every 5 days. They should be adult mice, not young adults. I prefer rats because I can give them a meal that is just enough to push them a little.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

I like to move my adults to chicks rather than rats. You may end up saving yourself some $$$ but most of all my Easterns that dont eat that well on mice or rats normally SLAM chicks. I feed my adults 3-5 every 4 or so days and they do pretty well. You may not need to feed as many at a time if you arent breeding them. Between chicks and large mice I do pretty well but it is your choice on what works for you. Feeding responses are great on chicks and that is why I use them (and because they are CHEAP)

Jeremy Thompson
JTColubrids, Inc.

I don't have anything against Chicks really, but they make a bigger, stinky mess when it comes out the other end.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

haven't had much problem like that, thank heavens.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
1.3 African House Snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
1 corn snake
4.3 Florida Kings
2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
1 Argentine boa
1 Texas Rat Snake
1 checkered garter snake

I havn't noticed any smell either. Matter of fact left over chicks don't smell up a room like decaying mice-WHICH IS WAY WORSE.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Funny, I don't have any decaying animals at all?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

Funny, I don't have any decaying animals at all?

what funny is you don't offer your snakes as much as they can eat because you think they will regurge. if you think about it, there will be leftovers.

And yes the chicks or rodents get buried under shavings when you keep more than one kingsnake in an encloser. So we don't always see them. But i guess you don't beleive that kings bond and can e fed and kept together either.
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www.Bluerosy.com

>>Funny, I don't have any decaying animals at all?
>>
>>what funny is you don't offer your snakes as much as they can eat because you think they will regurge. if you think about it, there will be leftovers.
>>
>>And yes the chicks or rodents get buried under shavings when you keep more than one kingsnake in an encloser. So we don't always see them. But i guess you don't beleive that kings bond and can e fed and kept together either.
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>>www.Bluerosy.com
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No, I don't feed them all they want because I have seen them regurge, it's not that I think they will regurge. Also it's easy to overlook snakes that aren't getting enough to eat.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

So what you are saying is that some wouldn't get properly stuffed like some of the others in the same bin would, right?

I'm sure that has never happened before!
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

well just because i do keep&feed a few pairs and groups together as well i would like to offer this.
it is a beautiful thing to see bonded pairs and even bonded pairs in groups thriving in a captive situation.
and i do beleive it takes a certain amount of experience and understanding of snakes to acheive properly, but when properly done it is a beautiful thing to see and when food is offered they will indeed share to an extant i mean it does require more of that uncommon thing called sense.
for instance you dont drop in a few smll. mice in with a bonded hungry pair. being i raise mice sometimes i will throw in 20-30 hoppers in a cage or hopps,&pinks or a dozen or so young adult mice sometimes i watch many times now esp. i dont watch just check that all were eaten when its f/t i like to mix it up as well chicks,mice, rat pups ive noticed who prefers what because i have a reletively small collection but there are no fights w/food with bonded pairs that ive seen. it does require that they are bonded to each other which has to start at an early age, and it does require that they are well fed and secure in their world, they are not mindless nomads as science has made them out to be. get to know them really know them and you will apprecieate them all the more. and they will tell you all they ever want or need if you will listen.
,,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

Yeah, I fully understand alot of that. For instance I can read all my individual snakes behavior extremely well, and basically know what they are going to do before they even begin to do it. Many people are not as "in tune" with how their snakes react to things as some other folks are either.

Yes, as you said, you certainly don't want to throw just a couple tiny mice in with a bunch of hungry floridana,..or ANY getula for that matter.

Also, yes, common sense can go a long way when it comes to snake keeping. When I personally introduce getula to one another, I let them first get the scent from the other one from more of the mid/rear portion of the animals, and don't just toss them in so they meet for the very first time snout to snout. I get real good results from letting them know another king's scent is being introduced to them and that it is getting close so they aren't totally surprised all of the sudden when their faces meet up..LOL!. Because that usually causes one of two respponses....

1) they both freak out and bolt

2) one may go for the other

This has always worked pretty darn good for me this way. And of course I watch the way they react to each other for a good while afterwards too.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

Doug
Try an experiment if you have bonded Floridas.

Put in some chicks and if both snakes wrap around each otther just leave them alone and see what happens. Eventually one will let go of the other. They do realize when they made a mistake.

I think the problem here is you think they will continue to constrict and kill each other. Which is not the case. They actually let go and then potily eat in turn.

I have this happen and I don't worry because I have seen this many times before. So I just leave the room. When I come back the snakes ate and all is well. Beleive it or not they snakes do learn from their mistakes and allowing them make tghem be more careful in future feedings.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Don't you think this keps the snakes in constant stress? It has to. Any smaller or shy snake will be totally stressed out. Reminds me of prison scenes. They learn to live together there too. Not to even mention any sick animals will contaminate the entire group. I keep some Corns in pairs, and I know it's a risk. I don't recomend it to everyone. I also make sure they eat in separate containers or bags. I wouldn't have such a big problem with the whole commune thing if I hadn't ever had a snake eat or kill another. I have seen it happen a few times, so I learned from my experiences. I am very cautious. If I had twenty or thirty of the same morphs, and I didn't mind too much if one got killed then, maybe it would be an option. It would save a lot of space and it would make feeding them easy, that's for sure. So the risk might be seen as a reasonable risk to take, but I just don't see it that way.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

That's basically the way I have always looked at it.

When they are all together in one tub, what real "choice" do they have but to try and live the best they can?

Mine live just fine in their seperate bins, so why would I need to ever change this?.

The answer would be...........I don't!, and of course I don't think my getula are stressed because they are in a single bin either.

Also, if something bad were to happen and one should have a health issue for whatever reason, I would also know exactly which one to deal with.

For me, there simply is no debate. Now if I had far too many for me to deal with, I might have to change tactics some, but this isn't the case, so why would I bother to fix something that isn't "broken"?

For me and my situation, it is just as simple as that....period!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

That's basically the way I have always looked at it.

For me and my situation, it is just as simple as that....period!

Okay big "period" for you.

but you are alos assuming things without experience. and you know what it means when you ASSume!

So far all I have seen is your logic. But no testing this out. I bet if you came over and saw the snakes you would have to agree you are wrong on all points you made above. As some people have before in the past.

Also this has nothing to do with too many snakes to deal with (again your assuming)... and a sick snake? Sick from what? Zonata desease? Then you whole collection would be infected anyway.
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www.Bluerosy.com

well there is no stress w/bonded pairs. and it isnt about space or time. its fascinating for me to witness and makes me apprecieate them all the more seeing group dynamics in action. but to each his own, it does take a certain level of experience and actually knowing your snakes as oppossed to keeping them singley in tubs. however a snake kept alone will stress when another snake is introduced whereas a bonded pair will only stress when one is removed. corns bond as well and perhaps you see that w/yours perhaps not i dont know. again these are not mindless nomads that just eat anything they see, they are social creatures and that can be seen when they become bonded with each other. ,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

Thomas, You hit the nail on the head! And you guys do not need to do it, I'm sure that Rainer does not care if you do or don't. He is providing you with how he does it and if you don't like it then just don't do it... I don't know why you contradict ever one of his posts... just let it die, no? Him, myself, and it looks like Tomas may too like to keep some of our kings together, bond the pairs, and we have had success doing it. Is it the only way to do it, obviously not but that's what we like and because we are the minority why should that make us wrong? None of us are wrong. The way that we all do it works. We are giving insight into a different way of doing it that you guys do not like, so what? Let it be and as far as I am concerned I hope you don't do it that way, in my snake room that would mean that I would produce less eggs and have much more stressed out snakes which i do not need. Don't you think that when you put two snakes that aren't bonded and don't know each other all that well they will be nervous around each other? If they are bonded and PERMANENTLY LIVE TOGETHER... I would make sense that there would be less stress involved as they are comfortable in living quarters. To make it clear I ONLY house FL KING Sub adults and larger together. If you do this with babies they are too defensive and problems WILL OCCUR. That's my experience, simply my experience and to try and say this is wrong makes no sense because it is what I do and what I have seen in my room. Yes it is different that what you do but as said before there is more than one way to skin a cat. We aren't her to make enemies, we are here to learn from each other.

Jeremy Thompson
JTColubrids, Inc.

Don't you think this keps the snakes in constant stress? It has to.

NO! It does not. Not even in the slightest.

Some I have in groups of 4 -5 for years. They are just acting as a single speciem. Actually now that i think about it single snakes i have kept appear more stressed.
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www.Bluerosy.com

I know about 5 breeders from over the pond and all of them house their kings together, but they are more into naturalistic terrariums......These groups in a naturalistic habitat seem to thrive well.....

I keep a few groups together....Since early this month I have MANY snakes in co habitation with their mates........
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Since early this month I have MANY snakes in co habitation with their mates

The key phrase here is 'early this month". Bonding takes time and one month the snakes might still be a tad stressed. zso with that i would agree with what DougM said. But i am not sure he really understands it.

But they will get over it once they go through a season. Breeding season is the worst time to acclimate snakes to the bonding process. i don't consider that bonding until they finsish laying their eggs and go into the fall season. Once they get through a fall season maybe they can be bodnded and be trusted to share food etc.
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www.Bluerosy.com

LOL....I meant they've been together since they came out of brumation.....I am not housing all my pairs together.....I still separate for feeding since they haven't lived together for a season or more.......

And I really meant early last month but that is irrelevant.......
I just figured if I pair them up out of brumation (I had some paired up during brumation too) then I would NEVER miss the window of opportunity.........It is amazing to see the males "claiming" the females and waiting for them to be receptive.....
Like this:

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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

np

Dan... as you no doubt can tell from the previous threads there are many and varied opinions on feeding snakes. Many of those opinions come from respected herpers, others come from "I've been doing this 30 years" or "I know more than you so you damn better well listen"...

I have milks snakes not kings but it's tomatos/tomatoes... fifty cents one way, half a dozen the other.

So here's my take, a little of what's been termed the "cookie cutter" approach... most snakes stomachs are at the thickest section of their bodies... when you feed your snake do you see a noticeable bulge there? If you do you have the right size item for them... if not buy the next larger size rodent next time... assuming you buy and not raise of course.

Next pick a time frame you'll feed your little pet... let's say every 5 days just for sh!ts and giggles... does your snake take the offered item as if it hasn't eaten in a year... try 4 days instead of 5... did it take the item as if "it's here, I'm here, might as well eat it... not like I have anything better to do"... then increase the schedule to 6 or 7 days.

Depending on your snake, the time of year... countless other things that many others no doubt will be more than happy to inform you about... this "cookie cutter/scheduled" approach will vary all the time.

Bottom line is you are the only one there to judge how your snake(s) is reacting to your feeding schedule, so only you can judge what it's telling you.

Let the games continue.

Gerry

if it all becomes too much... might I suggest you google up some Lewis Black political satire, sit back, and have a good laugh.

That's good advice Gerry!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

no it isn't. Lewis Black is horrible
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
1.3 African House Snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
1 corn snake
4.3 Florida Kings
2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
1 Argentine boa
1 Texas Rat Snake
1 checkered garter snake

>>no it isn't. Lewis Black is horrible

No it isn't good advice? I meant the feeding advice, lol.
I don't know who Lewis black is?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

He's a political comedian. Not as funny as he thinks he is
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
1.3 African House Snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
1 corn snake
4.3 Florida Kings
2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
1 Argentine boa
1 Texas Rat Snake
1 checkered garter snake

Very good post!
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Genesis 1:1

i HAVE A BTTER IDEA. JUST FOR shiFts and giggles, TO MAKE IT SIMPLE HEE HEE!

FEED THE FLORIDA KING THE LARGEST MEAL POSSIBLE. IF THEY CAN'T GET IT DOWN IT'S TO BIG SO NO HARM TO THE SNAKE. BUT IF IT DOES GET IT DOWN IT WILL HAVE A GROWTH SPURT AND YOU ALWAYS KNOW THAT IT CAN EAT THAT SIZE-SO NO SENSE IN GOING BACKARSE AND PANSY AROUND. THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT TO AVOID AND GET YOUR SNAKE OFF A SCHEDULE AND START DOING WHAT THE SNAKE WANTS.

ALSO IF THE BULGE DISSAPEARS IT IS TIME TO FEED AGAIN (THAT IS NOT SO HARD TO FIGURE OUT, IS IT?)...... DON'T WAIT 4-5-12-25 DAYS. JUST LOOK AT THE SNAKE. THEY ALL DIGEST AT DIFFERENT RATES FOR DIFFERENT FOOD ITEMS (IE CHICK, RATS, MICE-PINKS ETC)AND AT DIFFERENT INTERVAL OF THEIR LIFE STAGE.

ALSO IF YOU WANT TO BREED. FEED THE HECK OUT OF FEMALES. MALES WILL GROW AND BREED FASTER ANYWAY. AT LEAST WITH FLORIDA KINGS.
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www.Bluerosy.com