Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know that this is based upon opinion, and everybody out there has their own opinion, but i would like to get some input on this topic. I have been waiting a while for my female to grow, and am thus anxious for my first breeding season. I posted about a week ago about getting her on a different feeding schedule, and now that i have started that, another question is looming in my conscience: when can i breed my female? I have doon a good deal of research and asked lots of people at shows, through email, etc. and it seems that everyone has a different opinion. I have heard they can start as early as 1100 and have also been told no lighter than 1700. Given that the range of these two numbers is so large (600), i would like to hear from other people. So let me know what you think and thank you for taking the time to respond.
Thanks,
Matt

I like the 1500 gram range, 1400 if she is a good eater and will still eat while breeding (aka she can gain some weight before eggs come).
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

I've actually been wondering about this my-self. I have a female breeder at 900grams that I'm completely confident will make it to 1500g before next breeding season. On the other hand I've got a yearling that is only at 300g. The bigger of the two is a pinstripe and the smaller is a pastel. It would be nice to breed for a spinner ball and a bumble bee, but not at the threat of the animals. I wasn't going to post this till closer to next year, but since it came up....

Hypothetically speaking if my pastel were to make it to 1500g by let say next september. Even though she would only be about 16 months old at that point. Would she still be too young to breed? Again I'm not expecting here to put on that kind of weight. I'm just saying What if? Is there a maturity age point for the reproductive system to work?

I meant december or even january. Late enough in the season where there would still be time to breed, but also giving her the longest period of time possible to pack on the weight.

Also I've read that you can burn out a male if you breed him too often he will not eat and starve himself. What are the health issues involved with over breeding a female or breeding her at two early of an age?

Thanks,
Again.

i have a DH pied/albino male that i bred to 3 girls this season. He would stay in with each girl for a week. then a week back in his enclosure. He would eat that 4th week without a problem. He is a breeding machine.

BUT the intersting thing with him is, that he goes off feed AFTER breeding season. Im lucky to get 3 or 4 meals in him during the summer. I actually started my breeding season early this season so he would eat.

It really all depends on the individual animal.

Yeah that's what I'm gather. Use your common sense. I just don't want to injury an animal. If she looks big enough and healthy enough I'd like to breed her, but on the other hand it seems like there's no end to the safe road. I personally think 2.25 to 2.5 years and 1500 grams should be fine that seems to be the general idea. I personally would like to be extra cautious, but it seems like there's no end to it. We started out as low as 850 grams which couldn't have been a year and worked all the way up to 3 years and I think 1800 grams. By the time it was all said and done I think 5 years and 2500 grams could be the safe road, but come on. It would take decades and decades for different morons to come out at that rate. I definitely believe that it it's up to the individual. Which is kind of why I asked the question. What's the earliest you can try and what's the worst that can happen. Seems to me if you try too early you'll kill the snake, but no one explained how. I understand how it could be life threatening if the snake was too skinny to pass an egg how it could be life threatening. But if they are a healthy size and only young what harm could that do? Other than slugging out or just not breeding. And if that's the worst that happens as far as I can tell it's pretty much a was. Your snakes got to Play together for a little while. I'm not saying I'm right. Just saying I don't understand. If a snake is of size, but not age how does that cause health issues.

I was working and posting from an iPhone at the time so there was a lot of time in between chances to post. So if it sounded ridiculous. It was. I don't have time to repost it with no typos. If you care to reply I would appreciate if you read between the lines. 850 grams is a stretch for a year and I already reiterated on the too small to pass an egg thing in the post.

i've had a female lay 4 good eggs at around 850g.....would i recommend this....of course not.

all is depending on the snake....there's a long and skinny 1200g and then there's a short and think 1200g. you have to look at your snake and feel she is ready to breed.

Pitoon

>>I know that this is based upon opinion, and everybody out there has their own opinion, but i would like to get some input on this topic. I have been waiting a while for my female to grow, and am thus anxious for my first breeding season. I posted about a week ago about getting her on a different feeding schedule, and now that i have started that, another question is looming in my conscience: when can i breed my female? I have doon a good deal of research and asked lots of people at shows, through email, etc. and it seems that everyone has a different opinion. I have heard they can start as early as 1100 and have also been told no lighter than 1700. Given that the range of these two numbers is so large (600), i would like to hear from other people. So let me know what you think and thank you for taking the time to respond.
>>Thanks,
>>Matt
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Homepage
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>>i've had a female lay 4 good eggs at around 850g.....would i recommend this....of course not.
>>
>>all is depending on the snake....there's a long and skinny 1200g and then there's a short and think 1200g. you have to look at your snake and feel she is ready to breed.
>>
>>Pitoon
>>
>>
>>
>>>>I know that this is based upon opinion, and everybody out there has their own opinion, but i would like to get some input on this topic. I have been waiting a while for my female to grow, and am thus anxious for my first breeding season. I posted about a week ago about getting her on a different feeding schedule, and now that i have started that, another question is looming in my conscience: when can i breed my female? I have doon a good deal of research and asked lots of people at shows, through email, etc. and it seems that everyone has a different opinion. I have heard they can start as early as 1100 and have also been told no lighter than 1700. Given that the range of these two numbers is so large (600), i would like to hear from other people. So let me know what you think and thank you for taking the time to respond.
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>Matt
>>-----
>> Homepage
>> My BLOG
>> 2011 European Shows
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Homepage
My BLOG
2011 European Shows

Yeah just watch your girls. If there skinny and under 18 months old its a no go. I have a normal girl that is a 05 She eats just as good as any of my females but never gets bigger than 1200 grams. I think she is just a smaller girl but she is healthy and has good weight for her size. So I gave in this year and decided to breed her she has 5 follicles that are about quarter size now. I also have a healthy fat Mojave at 1400 grams that I am breeding and she has 5 big folciles and should ovulate any day now.

Well about your 850 gram female, that is just about the size of the female you mentioned. She is only about 3 feet long but eats amazingly. I know it is to late this season, but can i try her next season. If you would like to know she is on small rats every 4-6 days.

I said that is just about the size of the female you mentioned but i ment the size of my female.
Sorry...

i wouldn't recommend breeding your 850g female....my last small female that laid was by mistake as i thought the female was a male and the male was a female....to keep a long story short....both were sold to me sexed incorrectly....at the end i got my clutch but if i would have known i would han't paired them up.

breeding is not a race....there's reasons why they need to be heavy and old enough to breed. if you want to breed that bad....go buy an adult female that's ready. take your time...

Pitoon

>>Well about your 850 gram female, that is just about the size of the female you mentioned. She is only about 3 feet long but eats amazingly. I know it is to late this season, but can i try her next season. If you would like to know she is on small rats every 4-6 days.
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You might also be surprised how much weight they will gain if they continue to eat while breeding too. My Cinn female start breeding in late October at 1650 grams, and now is over 2500 (my scale maxes out here). She is still breeding and eating heartily.
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Lincoln, NE
0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly
2.1 Normals, 1.0 Thayeri, 0.1 Thayeri X Alterna, 0.1 Whitesided P. catenifer sayi, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

I personally think it should be more age than weight that should be the deciding factor. Weight can range so much depending on the snake's length...that saying a lump minimum weight isn't always good. A really good eater could be power fed to reach 1500g in less than two years...but I don't think power feeding is healthy for the snake.

I feel ball pythons shouldn't be bred younger than three years of age...even if they are capable of producing eggs younger. It should also be a healthy weight...not underweight or over weight...a too fat ball python won't breed well, whether male or female. Breeding females who are three years old and at least 1500g is good for your average length ballpython (around 3-4') but if yours is well over 4', 1500g may be on the light side. Same if your ball is 3' or less...1500g would be rather heavy.

All and all its your decision to breed...if you try her too young she will just not produce at all, if she's not sexually mature...even if she is a little under weight, as long as she is fed, she should be ok. But there are more risks with a too young/underweight female and certainly not recommended. Hence I always suggest its better to wait that extra year...especially if you are more concerned with the long term health of your snakes and not just to get babies to sell before the price drops.
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PHLdyPayne

Forum Princess

smaller balls (both in age and weight) tend to slug out on their first clutch and if they do lay it will be hard getting them up to weight for the next season.

Pitoon
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as big as THEY want to be....
850 to 3850 grams when they start....
you want 2 eggs or 12?
you want her to live long or die young? maybe this year?
you want her to give you huge babies or little bitty ones
you want to make her a 3 foot plus ball or try and make her a 5 footer?

......third year and 1700 is better.....

...
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........JY

Really, I feel as for size, it differs from female to female.
I find the most important issue would be age, no younger than 3yrs, and 4 years is even better (they tend to give more eggs on the 4th year if they don't give any the 3rd).

For size, I try to aim 1500 , but some females are smaller and thicker, and if they look healthy and thick I'll give it a go even if they're only 1200 (I don't do any less then 1100).

But really, I'd give her a go if she's at least three years old and looks healthy (and around or above the 1100-1200gram range).