Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm switching from over head lamps to under the tank heat pads. I'm new to this concept. I followed the directions and stuck it to the bottom of the tank. I have a infrared thermometer that reads surface temp, not air temp. The aspen substrate surface temp range was 86 to 92. I pulled back the substrate and the surface of the glass was 129.

(The surface of the metal on the out side of my heat lamp is 123, and felt about the same to the touch. Just for a comparison.)

Should I be concerned? Will the snake not lie on the bottom if it is to hot? What's my options?

DAVY

You should be using a rheostat or thermostat with the UTH, so it doesn't get too hot which it will.

You don't have to pay a fortune for one. I use the following on several of my tanks and it works well: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NZZG3S/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

A fool-proof rheostat for safety is definitely best!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

That's me, I'll have to get me one of those. Thanks

Hey, now I have a question about that thermostat. I own several zilla/zoo med, as well as a herpstat. The zilla and zoo med reptitemp type ones will turn on the heat pad or light at full power and then turn off when it reaches the right temperature.

The herpstat will pulse and dim the heating device to stay precisely what you have set it too. So if it is set to 78, the heating device will never reach its full powered on stage.

Which of these types is that thermostat? Pulse thermostat like the herpstat or on/off switch type thermostat?

You do NOT want to concern yourself with what the top of the substrate temp is, ONLY the bottom surface itself of the enclosure. That is what you want to be in the upper 80's or so. They will nestle down into it to make contact with the floor surface.

If the eclosure was HUGE like 10 feet long and they had all sorts of hiding places and temp variables, then it could even be 200 degrees on the opposite end. But it doesn't mean they would use it at all, because they wouldn't. They would search for whatever happy medium they desired at any given time for their particular situation...such as digesting, etc..

In a small typical enclosure, it would be best to have a cool end at normal room temp(say mid 70's, and your opposite FLOOR temp at around mid-high 80's. if other hides are offered on each end, this will allow them not to choose one over the other, so they can hide AND be cooler or warmer for whatever they see fit any time they want....this is what is optimum, but sometimes not always achieved.

Anyway, 129 degrees on the floor surface in a small enclosure is not what you want to have, because they need to be able to escape either extreme to thermoregulate as needed and also to hide.

You can turn it down, or if it is already at the lowest temp, raise the enclosure slightly above the heat source with even spacers with almost anything until the correct temp is achieved.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

Thanks for the great need to know info.

DAVY

This is the reason I do not use belly heat....I prefer back heat.....Belly heat just gets insulated by the substrate and it distributes the heat too far and allows it to get too hot in the entire enclosure....

With back heat you can still have a warm surface temperature on the back wall of the enclosure and it does not warm the entire tub/enclosure........

I also have deep Aspen....3 or 4 inches deep so that there is a thermal gradient from top to bottom as well as front to back....Plus the Aspen blocks or absorbs some of the heat from reaching the cool end.

I think it is best to isolate the heat to one area and back heat is better for that....IMHO....Then keep your snake room cool with air conditioning........Then you can achieve a 72F ambient air temp on the cool side to 90F surfact temp on the back wall of the enclosure even in small enclosures used for young kingsnakes........This is just the way I do it...there are many ways to achieve this.......lol
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

I had thought about doing that, but didn't know if it would work right or not. Sounds logical, it would create radiant heat for that side of the tank, while transferring conduction heat to the glass on the floor and meanwhile letting the excess convection heat flow out the top. Thanks good idea.

DAVY

Jlassiter is right. back heat is great. But not all snake shevles come with that. I have some that are heated from below (on the far end) and others with back heat. Both work good if you have a cold room. Both don't work great if the room gets up near room temps of 75 or thereabouts.

You still need the heat tape on with both scenarios if the room is room temps (lets say 72-76F), just turn the rheostat down real low and get out the temp gun in those cases. Bsoiclly do the best you can do with your situtation.

The colder the cold side is the hotter the hot side can be. Does that make sense? The more variance the better. Choices of the greater temp range wins. Ultimatly that is what is best for the snakes. keeping them in an even 82-88F is the worst we can do.
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www.Bluerosy.com

You would think I would have thought of that considering Commercial heating and air is what I do. But one thing I know is that a 14 story high rise is easer to maintain heating and cooling than two small snakes.

I'm switching from over head lamps to under the tank heat pads

Goog on you Davy. Heat lamps or above heating is never good. Undertank heating is the best way to go.

What type (make-model-size) undertank heat-pad are you using?

Also your high temps are fine. As long as the cool side is cooled to at least 80F perferrably less a few degrees. use tghe investment of tghe temp gun for the cool side. And not the hotspot.

A good hot spot is necessary. The snake knows where to go and what is too hot (we are not talking tortoises here who will cook themselves). If you are using a undertank heater and your snake is always coiled up above it or burrowing into the shaving it is not getting warm enough. The snake is showing you it just chooses the warmest temps it can find.

So yes. A good hot spot with a cool side is optimal. The snakes will move about and thermoregulate quite often. for instance after a meal it may choose the real hot temsp for a while (and a few hours later move back as it digests. After it is completed its digestion the snake will chooses the coolest end of the unit.

So again watching where the snake chooses depends on what is going on with the snake AT THAT TIME. Snakes always try to find the best temps to either digest or CONSERVE energy.

So krank that hot side up. just make sure it is cool on the cool side. use the temp gun for the cool side. No need to for the warm hot spot side. Snakes do sit under baords or heat up in rock cerveces etc when the need to. They vary their temps and need a real REAL hot spot to get the temps up past 100F.
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www.Bluerosy.com

I meat top type the cool side should be 70F. That was a typo. Sorry. If you have a cool that is better. the cooler the room the better. Heat pads in warm rooms don't work to well. Say you live in florida where temps in your snake room might be 82f. You want to turn the heat pad down real low since the snake can't escape the 82 temps . Even if your room is at 82F the inside of the box is much hatter because the heat tape is on. So depends where you live . What conditions of the snake room. You have to play with it as seasons change. During summer months and it gets above 82F in your snake room then I would advice not using a heat pad at all.

That is why there are so Sooo mnay variables when answering a post. If you live up north and temps are cool and you don't have a heated snake room (say the room is 55F) the hot spot (aka "Choices) works better.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Rainer, you are giving there a very important piece of information which is not intuitive.
Many years ago, I thought that with a room at 82 and a thermostat controlled heating tape also at 82, there should be no worries.However, the heat does accumulate inside the cage and in summer, I always have to work w/o heat tapes.

David

Yes it depends on where you live and if the room is heated or not. if the room gets cold that is good for the theroregulation of temps. But not all people have the cold climates and even then, some keep their snakes in heated parts of the house even though they live in cold climate winters.. Even with a cold room, the temps don't stay the same year round. So adjustments need to be made summer through winter with a rheostat attached to the heat tape..

In my situation I don't heat the snake room. it gets down to 40-45F during winter and spring. So heat tape turned on high works great. Even if the hotspot is 120F. As long as the snakes can, in some cases, get to a cold side which can be as low as 40F . But during summer my room heats up to as high as 87F so heat tapes obviously get turned off.
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www.Bluerosy.com