Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I found this little guy about a year and a half ago as a new born and ID'd it as a juvenile gray rat. The local was NE of Lake city Florida.
He spends alot of time in his hide and feeds very well, reaching just out of his hide to snatch an offering and vanishing back out of sight. I haven't taken a hard look at him in a while so when I did this evening I noticed a growth spurt and a slight pattern change. The blotches have developed rails or broken stripes that seem to suggest that I may have found my first gulf hammock rat and didn't know it. This isn't Levy county but it isn't that far away. I don't know, is it possible? What do you think?
mike.

Yeah, from what I can see, and the locale in which it was found, there does seem to be some Yellow Rat geneflow involved there.

I don't know exactly how recent that photo is, but if it is recent, it still has a very substantial amount of maturing and ontogenesis to go through still. So you should see a big difference as it further matures.

Only time will tell, but I would bet the yellow will intensify a good bit more, and the lateral striping as well. No telling about the exact percentage of either subspecies in that particular specimen, but You could very well end up with a decent "williamsi" phenotype when it fully matures.

Nice animal!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

Neat looking rat snake! I haven't seen many snakes from that particular part of FL.

This photo was taken yesterday. This guy was found in late September in the pouring rain crossing a muddy road. It was I believe Baker county. I say it like that because I was following the DeLorme map, trying to follow a planed road cruise route but the map sometimes is not clear as to what connects, is paved or dirt and what turns into goat path.
I encountered all that and torrential rain too. You might say I got detoured from the planned route followed my gut and switched to survival mode when everything went to goat path, in the rain, in the dark. So if I'm a little fuzzy on local you'll understand why. There were points where i followed a compass heading to confirm I'd come out on a specific road and by luck I did.
Oh and did I mention I was alone with no cell coverage.
Ya...that's my kind of stupid.
I did find find a total of 27 snakes that night.
There was another first, a huge green water. It was a nice mossy green. Lots of cottons too.
This little guy has a silver gray head like a gray would and is getting brownish blotches like some do. Its the broken bars or stripes that are going to be interesting as it matures.

Oh I figured as long as i've finally figured out how to post pics i'd give you a peek at my setup. These pics were taken awhile back and it's even better now but you'll get the idea.
I did promise I'd put up pics when I could, better late than never.
mike
There is a shot is what I started with when it was setup in my messy basement.(I don't know what order it'll end up)
The basement is still a mess but there is an oasis that is now the reptile room.

That's a real nice separated snake room you made down there!....

Thanks for the additional story on it too. And wow!, that was quite a nice "medley" assortment of snakes you came across. It's always amazing the stuff that can be seen when conditions are just right in any given area of habitat.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

That is just great.
It's obvious you put in much work.
A labor of love, I'm sure, but good job.
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Regards, Bill McGighan

Wow, gorgeous set-up!

eom
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

YA, you can come build me one too , NICE lol lol

As it is a former subspecies, that name only really applies to snakes found in the Gulf Hammock of Levy County and adjacent sections of Dixie and Citrus Counties. The Gray/Yellow intergrades from elsewhere are not considered "Gulf Hammock" rat snakes.

The rat snakes I've seen from NE of Lake City have all been pure looking Grays, though there are intergrades in the same general area.

Hey, Guy,
Glad to see you survived another winter up there.
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Foxturtle is, of course, right that we considered animals that far up, especially near Perry, to be grays, and are really nice ones.
Good luck with that one. Take pics as it grows.
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All that said, when the GH was considered a subspecies, the '58 Conant field guide did have them go up to Baker Co to almost Macclenny.
There is considerable variation. This DOR is from Baker County and looks more like a GH, but would have still been considered a Yellow/Gray integrade, even back then:
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At a location within the old GH range, here’s two we found on a recent herping trip
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My wife gets credit for spotting this one:
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Both animals were photographed and left as they were.
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Regards, Bill McGighan

Hi Bill, how have you been? Your babies are doing great. Seriously, no worries with them, they are easy to keep!
Knock wood, I cooled the room slightly and slowed things down a bit for the winter. No problems what so ever.

"the '58 Conant field guide did have them go up to Baker Co to almost Macclenny."
I had to pull out my guide from '58 and yes it does have the maps corner going up to Baxter. The new version mentions GH but doesn't give a range map.
Yellow gray intergrade? That could be the origions of GH???
This snake has a beautiful silver/gray base color that I like and hope it retains. I have others with that but the ash gray blotches. This is getting brownish blotches and well the rails, well they are just making things more interesting.
The cool part of all this is that this is a natural mix(?) and not a "gourmet" CB experiment.
Oh and tell your wife she has eagle eyes! I doubt I would have spotted them without field glasses.
Oh and on this...
"Both animals were photographed and left as they were."
...like you had a choice!

FT "The rat snakes I've seen from NE of Lake City have all been pure looking Grays, though there are intergrades in the same general area."
Ever see one like this, pure gray with the rails there?

Doug "That's a real nice separated snake room you made down there!....And wow!, that was quite a nice "medley" assortment of snakes you came across. It's always amazing the stuff that can be seen when conditions are just right in any given area of habitat.
Thanks on the room. It took several weeks of work and about a grand of cash to get it done but it keeps everything contained, orderly, and climate controlled.
Sooooo much easier and enjoyable now!
The night in the rain broke all the rules as I previously knew them. Everything I knew said to me that road cruising should have been worthless but it was my only shot while I was down there so I went anyway.
Mike.

Thanks for the story on the nice climate-controlled snake room, that really did turn out nice. No doubt it makes working down there far more enjoyable for you AND the snakes..LOL!

Yeah, many times low pressure systems and rain can be very productive as you very happily found out!

cheers!, ~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

"Hi Bill, how have you been? Your babies are doing great."
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That is great. I have mating going on right now with E Fox.
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"The new version mentions GH but doesn't give a range map."
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The first GH I caught were in Mar, 1971.
Un-be-knownst to me, the subspecies had already been sunk.
It was dtermined that it was, in fact, a Yellow gray intergrade.
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"This snake has a beautiful silver/gray base color that I like and hope it retains. I have others with that but the ash gray blotches. This is getting brownish blotches and well the rails, well they are just making things more interesting."

I've always thought some of the most contrasting grays come from that area, some even get purplish black blotches.
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"Oh and tell your wife she has eagle eyes! I doubt I would have spotted them without field glasses.
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Truth is, at this time of the year, we always use binoculars. The trick is looking in the right places!
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""Both animals were photographed and left as they were.""
...like you had a choice!"
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The first one I waded out to within 1 meter of the animal (Pic meta-data shows), snapped, then backed off.
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The second one ,,,, well, I tried to get my wife to climb the cypress, but she said, " you first."

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Regards, Bill McGighan

Excellent specimen, and I love the cool vivarium habitat you used there as well!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

Excellent specimen, and I love the cool vivarium habitat you used there as well!
~Doug

Bill has sunk a few bucks into his hobby with a full compliment of vision cages and with plenty of creativity.
One example of a tex rat with a watering can hide, very creative. His snake room had been some inspiration to me when building mine.
Hey Bill, can you repost that pic of your SR with your kids holding the snakes? That was great!
Mike.

This one still kills me, Mike.
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Regards, Bill McGighan

Love the kid in the black shirt's expression!..LMAO!!

I had a non-snake person over this week for company, and I gave her a big 5 foot extreme hypo Honduran to hold and get her photo taken with it to show her friends back home, and that very same freaked-out look was on her face too!..HAHAHA!!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

That's the one!
That picture IS worth a thousand words!
The back ground action is priceless.
That's got to be the funniest random shot I'm seen.
...and its a great view of a reptile setup to be jealous of.
Mike.