Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is she big enough???

Here is my dilemma; I acquired a Darin Bell line hypo female from a friend of mine. The girl (Hope) is an older animals, she was doing great for many years and put some size on. She then began to have problems with regurgitation.

It is my understanding that the hypo BRB’s have had problems with regurgitation. Perhaps this is a linked trait…? Nevertheless, I think that the EBV line was sufficiently out crossed to eliminate this problem (for the most part). I don’t think this was done with the DB hypo line.

With this in mind I think (please correct me if I am wrong) that this hypo gene has almost been wiped out completely. Because the two hypo lines (EBV and DB) seem to have a very different look to them and they are not compatible, I would really hate to lose this unique genetic trait.

So back to the problem, Hope (1998), is an older animal that may only have one or two more opportunities to successfully breed (if that). When I first got her on 9/30/2010 she was 5-ish feet at 856 grams. I was able to get her eating well for a few months and then the problem reemerged. She is doing well now and I am hopefully. However, as of 3/27/2011 she is only at 1045 grams. This is not as much of an increase in weight as I hoped for in 6 months but at least it is about and 20% increase in body weight, that’s promising.

I really am hoping for one more litter out of her (next year)!!! She will be going to a very strong “normal” male in order to get 100% hets that are hopefully strong eaters that don’t have the regurgitation problem.

On to the question, at approximately 5 feet long, how much does a girl need to weigh to safely breed??? I really want to get her to a safe size by the next breeding season and would like to have a clearly defined goal.

Thank you for your time, John

in addition, if anyone out there has or knows someone that has hets or visual DB hypos please let me know.

John

John,
...You need to take a long term approach with hypos and het hypos. It is my opinion that female BRBs should not be bred if they are less than 1500 grams. Carrying a load of big babies for 5 to 6 months requires too much energy which has to come from stored fat for an underweight snake to provide. With a typical small but hardy BRB that weighs 1000 grams today it would be normal to plan on getting it up over 1500 grams before the end of the year and breed it next winter. There has been some problem with regurgitation in hypo and het hypo BRBs. They will seem to do well for awhile then regurg and if you do not wait quite some time before feeding again they regurg the next meal or the one after it. The overall result is that in spite of our efforts or perhaps because of them the snakes grow so slowly that they seem to take forever to get large enough to breed. I have had the problem with several of my hets. Rather than blame the snakes which is too easy I have to consider that I am to blame for being too impatient with snakes which require extra patience. BTW, I like snakes that eat heavily and grow quickly. It is just neat to watch a healthy snake grow. Your snake might keep meals down and grow to 1500 grams this year but it will likely regurg some more if you push too fast. Rather than setting a goal of having her big enough late this year think in terms of going slowly so that she does not get into the regurg cycle ever again. I have normal females that are over 20 years old and still producing babies. You have several years left in your snake after you get her up to size year after next or even the year after that.
Good luck,
Jeff

Jeff,

Of course, great advise!!! I would never want to push an animal to quickly. I think she is doing much better now. She just needed a little TLC and she is bouncing back. Hope is keeping down small meals with no problems. I have only had her for 6 months and you can definitely tell a huge difference already. I was a little concerned about how old she was and then the poor health on top of that I didn’t know is she would ever be able to breed. She may be just a nice pet, and that would be okay with m. I really just wanted to know what a safe weight for breeding is. I would hate to cause harm because I was impatient.

Again, thanks for the advice. I will hold out for that 1500 grams.

John

John, do you have a picture of her? I would love to see what she looks like.
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Aubrey Ross

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www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

Aubrey,

Hope is not one of the best specimens of a DB hyps I have seen, especially being nearly starved. But she has a lot of character and has become one of my favorites.

I am currently working on getting all of my animals properly photographed and into my photobucket so that I can begin posting them on the forum. Right now most of the photos have text attached to them, because they were used for my website. You can see her on my website under Rainbow boas – Collection, in the hypo section.

www.rainbowsbydesign.com

From the photos of other DB hypos that I have see I think that the DB hypos have a deeper color to them than the EBV line. Although I have seen some beautifully colored EBV out crossed. I think that the important part of the gene is that it is noticeable different than the EBV line and that the two bloodlines are not compatible. So it may be possible to create a “super” hypo. Fingers crossed!!!

John

ive just been checking out your website.
Out of interest you say that Hope maybe the last DB hypo out there.
But you also have some 100% DB hets, what were the parents of these?
Did bryan have a DB male, that has since passed?

cheers
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Dave

15.24 brbs
4.8 crbs
Im an aussie in an arctic environment
Helsinki, Finland

Dave,

Not a problem, just to clarify, I hope that there are more DB hets and/of visuals out there. I hope that someone proves me wrong as I would like to see this genetic trait bounce back. Thus far I do not know of nor have I heard of anyone else with DB animals with one exception, Bryan Hummel.

Bryan and I have been friend for a number of years and worked on collaborations in the past. This is one such collaboration. Hope, the visual DB hypo was from Bryan’s collection. She came to me along with two of her offspring (Screech and Lisa) that were produced before she took a down turn for the worse. Bryan still has a few DB animals and between the two of us, we hope to get some DB hypos that are health and strong feeder. It is our hopes that because the two hypo lines are not compatible that the combination of the genes will produce something amazing, fingers crossed. But the first goal is to reestablish the DB hypo bloodline into something one could comfortable work with and hopefully out cross the animals to eliminate the regurgitation problem.

John

I just checked your website and I see you dabble in the Ringed Pythons! I tried to raise up a few of those over the last few years, but failed for some reason. The last one I had was growing like a weed until my apartment maintenance crew killed her. I've kinda become discouraged, but I still want a pair so bad. Who knows if I'll have the courage to drop even more $$$ on them any time soon.

I saw that you bought a pair from Reptile Rapture... their store is right by me. I was drooling over them for a couple weeks when he told me he sold them. Didn't know they went to you!

You have some nice specimens, congrats on your success raising them! Any idea when they might produce offspring?
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Aubrey Ross

�
www.SlipstreamSerpents.com