Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just thought some of you would find this interesting. Some of my friends have hatched about 30-40 sulcatas in the last year and have only sold about 7. 2 of these were sold to the same woman, and she noticed a growth difference and took the small one to the vet. They checked it out and found nothing wrong, and then decided to give it a blood test to be safe. It turned out that the little sulcata that the woman had bought for $50 was a dwarf! Right now a breeder is offering around $25000 and flying out of florida to see it. You can imagine how angry my friends are . Good news, about 8 other babies are not growing as fast, and to be safe they are testing them all (inclusing the notmal sized ones) Who kmows, maybe they will have a few more. I just thought you would all find this a bit funny. (I am not definate about the price offer), another question, exactly how rare are dwarf sulcatas? I have done searches with just about every search engine and found nothing. you would think more people would want the personality of a sulcata in a palm sized form.
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1.1 mali uromastyx. Mali and Bruno

N/P

I Don't think a blood test can tell the difference.

What blood test would conclude a dwarf species of sulcatas. many individuals from the same clutch grow at different sizes and are mistaken as a "dwarf" sulcata but we don't have a conclusive way to prove that this is a genetically distinct mutation. Don't be fooled.
BVP

The Tortoise Nazis would be appalled at such an abomination and most likely demand that it, and all related progeny, be destroyed ASAP.
Now for the rest of us that would be the coolest thing in the world. Can you imagine a 'mini me' Sulcata? Fantastic.
Ok then... back to reality.
What kind of blood test can tell you if it is dwarf? Then, it is basically worth nothing unless the gene can be reproduced. It would be the second generation that would be worth a fortune.
Ed

Wouldn't they have to isolate the gene in Torts that causes dwarfism (are there really any established dwarf sulcata to use as test cases anyway??).

Then they could run a dna test for it. I am no expert but frankly I don't think they have come up with one yet

.

to determine dwarfism? I would think having that kind of testing done on a tortoise would be extremely specialized (not to mention costly), and not something a local vet could do.

But another question: is there any species of tortoise that has produced a verified dwarf?
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Jeannie

aka Sohni (my real name, just like Sony TV, it's Indian)
Northern California
0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa (Bella)
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake (Bess)
1.1 Rubber Boas (Isaiah & Esther)
0.0.1 Hermann's Tortoise (Moxie)
1.0 Leopard Gecko (George)
2.0 adopted DSH Cats (Amos & Silas)
1.0 rescued English Springer Spaniel (Jimmy)
and...
2.0 Kids w/ 0.0.1 California King Snake (Rex), 0.1 Leopard Gecko (Geico), 1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa (Lucas)
1.0 Husband (no pets, just us, lol)

Redfoots for sure.
There is a Redfoot that is found on an island off Nicaragua that reproduces at a relatively small size and I've read that some other island form do the same.
Ed

I'm a organic chemist, hold a fresh Ph.D. One of the 2 legs of Biochemistry is organic chemistry. So I understand basic biochemistry that deals with DNA, protein, etc.

Only research universities, national labs, pharmaceutical and biotech companies have the brain power and instruments to identify new genes.

A vet may not even understand how a particular gene or a group of genes cause dwarfism.

Joe

np
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Jeannie

aka Sohni (my real name, just like Sony TV, it's Indian)
Northern California
0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa (Bella)
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake (Bess)
1.1 Rubber Boas (Isaiah & Esther)
0.0.1 Hermann's Tortoise (Moxie)
1.0 Leopard Gecko (George)
2.0 adopted DSH Cats (Amos & Silas)
1.0 rescued English Springer Spaniel (Jimmy)
and...
2.0 Kids w/ 0.0.1 California King Snake (Rex), 0.1 Leopard Gecko (Geico), 1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa (Lucas)
1.0 Husband (no pets, just us, lol)

I do so enjoy seeing an urban myth in the making busted to hell & back!

this is just what I was told, I am pretty sure that the test results were sent into some lab, and the gene was identified, if it was not true, then the breeder flying out from florida is wasting his money. of course, if it really is worth that amount of money, I think the tests would be worth it. I beleive there is a fair chance since these people have 5 different males that breed to all the females, and about 7 females that actually are successfull. who knows, maybe there was some freaky mix of males that caused it? I am not expert (or even authority) my theory on this is just a guess. If it is an incorrect identification, then I am sorry, but I beleive it is heard of, the people said the dwarfs are about the size of an adult palm, now that would be awesome to have a sulcata personality in tiny form.
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1.1 mali uromastyx. Mali and Bruno

You wouldn't say so if you have just a tiny bit of idea how much money they burn to identiy a single gene. I don't think the old lady, nor the vet had the resource, unless they had a luxury house in Beverly Hill, and they traded it for the special tortoise gene.

Theoretically, it's also impossible to identify the "dwarfism gene" with just a single specimen. Because each individual has a unique set of genes, the difference between two torts may not be huge, say 0.01%, but that may correspond to hundreds of genes.

Unless the tortoise may provide a cure for human cancer, or it's a Martian tort, I don't think any reputable lab would waste their time on it.

I think this should put the final nail on it.

Joe

I was just wondering, how would you get a small tortoise like that to mate with a 200 pound giant? Dosn't the female have to comply with the male? Thanks. Brooks

Those lil palm size sulcata male tortoises are sneaky devils.. they creep on those 100lb females under cover of darkness and crawl right inside of em to fertilize them and they are soooo tiny that the female never knows what hit 'em. LOL!!