Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This animal is testing the limits of my patience, but I guess she is worth it, correct? She is still not eating regularly. I had to force feed her again tonight for the seventh time via a pinky pump. I have to say that without a pinky pump device, this little axanthic girl would be dead a long time ago. So for that I am thankful. I just want her to start eating normally. I snapped a quick pic of her the other day before she got blasted with another emulsified pinkie into her gut.

Juarez Wonders

>>This animal is testing the limits of my patience, but I guess she is worth it, correct? She is still not eating regularly. I had to force feed her again tonight for the seventh time via a pinky pump. I have to say that without a pinky pump device, this little axanthic girl would be dead a long time ago. So for that I am thankful. I just want her to start eating normally. I snapped a quick pic of her the other day before she got blasted with another emulsified pinkie into her gut.

I would say Hypoerythristic (Reduced Red - Hypo-E) rather than Anery or Axanthic.....I don't see an absence of Red and no yellow to be absent to be called Axanthic.....imo......

She is a nice one Allan....I think the extra effort is worth it with these beauties......I dislike pinky pumps......Definitely a LAST resort technique........
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Geeeeezzzz man, I say definitely worth while! Your buddy Scott powley told me to do some tail assist feeding and that trick worked for every baby I have had since.
Im no professional but I agree with the Hypo-E comment.
what classifies the anery or hypo-e?

>> what classifies the anery or hypo-e?

The prefix A or AN means lack of or absent.....
The prefix Hypo means reduced.....
The affected pigment is erythrin....RED.....

So.....Anerythristic is NO RED....
And Hypoerythristic is reduced red......

And I agree with mouse tails as well....over pinky pumping....but that is just me......I think folks are free to do what they want with their snakes........
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

That is one awesome animal Allan. Def. worth the extra effort. I am a big fan of tail assist feeding too, but I have never used a real pinkie pump. Seems to be working!

Yea, I have had many picky zonata parvirubra and pyromelana that just would not eat right away.
My first attempt is a washed pinky that I use a sharp pin or tip of a fork to poke through the forehead and make a bubble of fluid. I put them in a paper bag and leave them for a couple hours or overnight
Then if that does not work I put the mouse tail in the mouth and let them finish it.
Almost always after the assist tail feedings and 1 shed cycle, they accept either brained or plain frozen thawed pinks.

Pretty much the same for me. Tailing has worked MOST of the time.

I was feeding her mousetails. That worked four times. The next two times I tried feeding her mousetails, she regurgitated them both times. She was getting really thin and was going to die if I didn't do something drastic. I knew she needed some more nourishment. Mousetails are mostly just cartilage and bone. I had never used a Pinky Pump ever before this. I hadn't needed to. Now that I have some experience working with one, I will say that it works, but it's a pain in the ass.
Juarez Wonders

>>I was feeding her mousetails. That worked four times. The next two times I tried feeding her mousetails, she regurgitated them both times. She was getting really thin and was going to die if I didn't do something drastic. I knew she needed some more nourishment. Mousetails are mostly just cartilage and bone. I had never used a Pinky Pump ever before this. I hadn't needed to. Now that I have some experience working with one, I will say that it works, but it's a pain in the ass.
>>Juarez Wonders

Cool....like I said....last resort......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

You used the P word! Last time I mentioned the P word, I had my hyde ripped off and handed to me, and I was told I had no business owning snakes, lol! I agree with you though, I have saved many snakes over the past years, with the help of a PP. I do try other methods first
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

>>You used the P word! Last time I mentioned the P word, I had my hyde ripped off and handed to me, and I was told I had no business owning snakes, lol! I agree with you though, I have saved many snakes over the past years, with the help of a PP. I do try other methods first

And why don't mouse tails work?........lol
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

I had a baby Corn die after taking in a fuzzy tail, and I had a couple other ones take them ok but weren't gaing any weight at all. I prefer forcing small anoles than mouse tails, but whatever get's the snake going is good.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

Wouldn't it just be easier to feed this reluctant eater a fence lizard? I keep a colony of fence lizards or scenting, and if things became very dire I could also feed the snake an actual live lizard. Anoles I guess would work if no fence lizards are available.

She is a very pretty little snake; I hope she starts eating on her own.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

Some snakes almost seem to have a death wish! I have a couple 2010's that still only eat tease fed, one I have to force feed, but I'm about give up, and let him choose his own destiny. He refuses everything! I haven't tried fence lizards but anoles have worked pretty good for most.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

>>Wouldn't it just be easier to feed this reluctant eater a fence lizard? I keep a colony of fence lizards or scenting, and if things became very dire I could also feed the snake an actual live lizard. Anoles I guess would work if no fence lizards are available.

It depends on the species too Bob....Not all kings want fence lizards....Some want other snakes.....Some want anoles.......Some want geckos and some want sceloporus.......And the easy ones want f/t pinkies.....LOL
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Allen good luck! I lost a nice knob this spring to only mouse tails, just not enough food for them...Glad you chose the PP expecially for such a nice specimen!
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Jimmy Tintle

I betchya that it will start eating by itself first 2 weeks in May.

I would have just cooled her and not given it much thought until mid May. Zonata are especially sensitive to outdoor seasons.
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www.Bluerosy.com

I did cool her for four months and she still isn't eating on her own. This has never happened to me in all the years I have been working with zonata(over 20 years).

Sometimes when we get a 'special' one , we fuss and worry over it to much. "special" because it is a neat morph. This ends up for us experinced guys trying to hard. Warming then cooling them...Then warming up again. ..Then finally force feeding 7 times....AND IT IS ONLY APRIL 3RD TODAY.

LOL, I done that. Best thing is not to worry and give the hatchlings time during winter and leave them alone. It's hard I know. Even for someone as experinced as you. But if that was not a recessive morph maybe you would have just cooled it and left it until it was seasonally time for the zonata in you area to start getting active?

The temps this past week in the 2000ft level in the seirras went like this..(and I used to see this every year)..

last week there was a terribele snow storm..then I checked the temps and it was 72F at the same elevation 3 days ago Yesterday the temps dropped from 31 low to 46f high. The temps are all over the place.

What is my point? The zonata don't have a calander like we do..The zonata KNOW that winter is not over. They won't start their season habits until it is over. Temps don't fool them. They are not crawling out of their crevices when it is 72F and then get caught is a freeze the next day with snow on the ground. I ask myself how do they know this? I don't know how they know. But they do.
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www.Bluerosy.com

With all the lizard varieties out there, none of them have worked for scenting?

We know zonata can be some of the tougest lil' buggers out there to start, and mortality rates CAN indeed be very high if not reared correctly in their first year of life especially when not in experienced hands.

I hope you find a way to get her going strongly Allan. Side-blotched lizzies and Western skinks work reeeeeal well.
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Jerry Kruse
www.zonatas.com

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

>>We know zonata can be some of the tougest lil' buggers out there to start, and mortality rates CAN indeed be very high if not reared correctly in their first year of life especially when not in experienced hands.
>>
>>Jerry Kruse
>>www.zonatas.com

I disagree with that. You are making them out to be some hugely difficult species to start. They are not. Grey bands and pyros are more difficult to get feeding than zonata.

Allan -- have you tried assisted feeding? Take a dead pinky and pry open the snake's mouth. This pisses algama off and they will chomp down tight then realize it tastes pretty good then proceed to eat it right in your hand. Just need to hold your hand still while the snake finishes swallowing. I never had a baby algama not feed this way. Sometimes it took a couple tries but they eventually took it. It did not work as well with other zonata species, but occasionally one would take a pink this way. A couple meals this way and they will start on their own.
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Rick Staub

I've tried that with this girl but she will chomp down on it and then release it. So far I have pinky pumped her 8 times and she is growing like a weed now. I tried tonight scenting some Granite Spiny Lizard blood on the thawed pinkie and she looked really interested so I left it in the cage with her overnight to see if she'll eat it. If not then she'll keep getting pumped until she starts eating normally.
Juarez Wonders

Hope she takes it. My fall back has always been frozen/thawed with split brain. Also, presentation is just as important. Never put the pinky on the bedding. Tear off a piece of a 4x6 card and put the pinky on the paper instead. The scent keeps better. Also, place it towards the cooler end of the cage and against a side wall where they will bump into it as they crawl around. No need to cook the food. You probably know most of this so just throwing it out there.
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Rick Staub

Well anyways....good luck with this little one. One day at a time...
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Jerry Kruse
www.zonatas.com

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

It makes you wonder what the mortality rate is the wild and how many beautiful (Even not so beautiful)and odd morphs snakes don't make it the first year. I've seen some juvinile zonata in the early spring that were on deaths door. However, this is not the case. Best of luck with her Allan. That's a first for being captive bred.

PL

Allan,

The most simple and healthiest way to maintain the health of a non-feeder (and to actually add weight) is to feed it baby food. Just get a syringe, beef baby food, and feed the appropriate amount. The baby food is simple to digest and adds weight to the animal super quick. It not only keeps weight on the snake, but gets them to grow to a point where they can easily take a pinky. I use this for all my non-feeder z's (because sometimes you can't get ahold of a lizard and you have to use your brain a little to come up with a solution that doesn't lead to the death of the snake) but mainly for my NA milks. Give it a shot, you'll be super happy.

Mitch