Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a few things I'm working out for this year's egg-laying season, just wanted to get some opinions:

Last year, I got a total of 15 eggs (yeah, bad season), only 8 actually hatched. A whole clutch died in their eggs and an egg each from my other small clutches lost an egg to mold. I realized that the Miracle-Gro Perlite I used was infused with plant food. Obviously, just to be safe, I'll be tracking down new perlite somewhere. The Miracle-Gro was all I could find last year. But how possible is it that the 0.017% plant food in the perlite had something to do with killing the eggs?

Second, is there a good way to cut down plastic eggcrate? I've used a pair of bone scissors since I started using the eggcrate a few seasons ago and the shrapnel of plastic shards while I'm cutting it is rather annoying. Is there a better method that reduces the mess and wasted material?

Lastly, I think my choice of egg chambers, which I've also been using for years, may have had something to do with the eggs I lost last year. I'm thinking of switching to small Sterilite boxes, but that may take up a lot of space in my incubator. However, I think having extra space and oxygen and the lid being farther away from the tops of the eggs to reduce moisture resting on them will be a good thing to have.

I'm really looking forward to the outcome of my projects for this year, would like to not lose any of them. Any input, opinions, or feedback are appreciated. Thanks.

BP eggs are very easy to hatch. The egg crate is also easy. I use a bandsaw to cut the egg crate. You can cut it with diagonal pliers. The box should have a tight lid and not be drafty. If water drops appear on the lid, cover the eggs with newspaper, when it gets wet, change it. I fill up the boxes with multiple clutches.

Quick question….

When stuffing a box like that of multiple clutches from different females….how would you know what hatchling came from what egg ( I see they’re numbered) if you have multiple hatchlings that exit the shell at the same time? Or do you separate into smaller tubs toward the later end of the incubation period?

….just curious

Pitoon

>>BP eggs are very easy to hatch. The egg crate is also easy. I use a bandsaw to cut the egg crate. You can cut it with diagonal pliers. The box should have a tight lid and not be drafty. If water drops appear on the lid, cover the eggs with newspaper, when it gets wet, change it. I fill up the boxes with multiple clutches.
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I was wondering the same thing.
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

I would assume that they would have to be clutches that would produce offspring that you would be able to ID.
Ex. Super Butter x normal, albino x albino, ect.

that does not help out with records. Ideally one would want to track hatchling to female....ie....what hatched, survived, DIE (died in egg), defects...etc....

Pitoon

>>I would assume that they would have to be clutches that would produce offspring that you would be able to ID.
>>Ex. Super Butter x normal, albino x albino, ect.
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They are removed before hatching and put in shoeboxes with wet newspaper. I try not to even let them pip in the egg boxes. I don't want the egg boxes to get dirty. I put more clutches in each box after I remove some. If the box doesn't get dirty, I use it again the next year with the same substrate. If they pip in the box, I mark the box and then clean it later. The only thing the substrate does is to keep the water from sloshing around when you move the box. Did you notice the size of a couple of those clutches, clutch #45 has 11 eggs, clutch #49 has 13 eggs. Both females are het albino and are siblings. They are 5000gr plus.
Mike

yeah, that makes more sense and what i thought you were doing. i do the same thing, but at the end of the hatching season i rinse out the vermiculite and tubs and put away for storage. the water here is very hard and if left to dry out it would leave calcium deposits on the tubs that are a pain to remove.

i was looking at those eggs...size size clutch! i just got my first clutch yesterday...7 nice perfect SLUGS!!!! i knew this season was going to be bad....but not this bad!?!?!?

Pitoon

>>They are removed before hatching and put in shoeboxes with wet newspaper. I try not to even let them pip in the egg boxes. I don't want the egg boxes to get dirty. I put more clutches in each box after I remove some. If the box doesn't get dirty, I use it again the next year with the same substrate. If they pip in the box, I mark the box and then clean it later. The only thing the substrate does is to keep the water from sloshing around when you move the box. Did you notice the size of a couple of those clutches, clutch #45 has 11 eggs, clutch #49 has 13 eggs. Both females are het albino and are siblings. They are 5000gr plus.
>>Mike
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I use wire cutters (like the pic) to cut my crate.

I have the same issue with perilite, so I switched to Vermiculate.
Worked just fine.

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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

Those are what I use to cut down the light diffusers, I get no shrapnel at all. I've completely stopped using vermiculite or perlite for snake eggs, and now only use vermiculite for gecko eggs and insect eggs.
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www.jasonrbartolettreptiles.webs.com

It was the MiracleGro. Last year I thought I saw some MiracleGro that didn't have the fertilizer but what I got home with for sure had it and every egg that touched it died and the three eggs on top lived. For the rest of my season I found Ace Hardware still sells a brand other than MiracleGro that worked fine.

I experienced the same thing last season with the Miracle-Gro Perlite. I didn't think a little fertilizer in the mix would matter, but it surely does. Lesson learned the hard way. I've located pure perlite for this season.
Matt Ozsvath
Lizards of Oz
www.lizardsofoz.com

Yep, I lost a whole clutch of 5 (dead in the eggs) of some amazing snakes that came from my female in the pic in my original post. I did however also end up with 8 perfectly healthy hatchlings, so at least it didn't kill them all. I could just feel all throughout incubation something wasn't right. Never even occurred to me my medium was toxic.

Hopefully be breeding a Chocolate Pin to her next year to see what's going on with her. At least I know she's genetic.

If you go to an actual plant nursery to buy your vermiculite and perlite, you can ask the expert personnel there about the ingredients. After inspecting for yourself the ingredients listed on the bag, ask the owners/proprietors if they know for certain that this product is pure and doesn't contain any other inpurities. I always stress to them that I will be using it with animals and it is very IMPORTANT that I know this! I buy the BIG bags of each which is cost efficient and lasts for a few years.

Susan Sentman
SSNAKES Reptiles

There was a nice thread on a leo gecko forum somewhere that was on just this subject. The is a nice paper on the effects of ammonium nitrate on shelled lizard eggs (link to abstract below). Mixing the MiracleGro perlite 1:1 with water results in a concentration of ammonium nitrate 4x what was found to cause significant loss in this study.

Granted they are not the same species, but this compared to what everyone here is reporting who has tried it..... doesn't sound good. I was thinking about trying it with eggcrate to keep the eggs off the perlite, but decided batter safe than sorry. Sounds like I made the right choice.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/4meevvju0yk9141n/
http://www.springerlink.com/content/4meevvju0yk9141n/

I buy my vermiculite and perlite through a company called hummerts international they are local to me but they do ship. They sell the big bales of the stuff as well as sphagnum moss and peat moss. Their website is www.hummert.com

Thanks, everyone. That helps a lot.

Really sucks I didn't even think about the possibility of it not being pure Perlite. I figured it was just Miracle-Gro brand. Live and learn, I guess.

just use the same thing 99% of the rest of us use. vermiculite in a 6qt tub. its proven to work, no guess work or what ifs. 100% hatch rate here last year. if its not broke don't fix it
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True. But not really all that different. I like the eggcrate method, cause it makes it even simpler by not having to worry about too much moisture on your eggs...Hell, if I hadn't been using eggcrate last year and just buried my eggs in plant fertilizer, they'd surely all have died.

the impression i got was more like you had each egg in something, plenty of people so use eggcrate and it works, i thought you meant you fabricated something for them
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Amen BAM! Never liked Perlite! Can't tell how wet it is by looking at it!

Who cares how wet it is. It doesn't hold moisture the same way that vermiculite does nor does it compact, stays light and airy. You can put it in your boxes dry and just pour water down a corner till it puddles across the bottom, perfect every time.

Plus, because vermiculite occurs in the same rock formations as asbestos, all vermiculite has the possibility of containing asbestos a known carcinogen. Not worth the risk to me or my hatchlings.

anywhere they sell masonry supplies...ask for "block fill"
huge bags ....good luck.....I have had one for like a decade now and it's half full yet....actually it got a hole and is spilling all over the inside of my shed on my roto-tiller....(it will be swept outside and the lawnmower will blow it everywhere....neighbors will love me that day....

...good luck...
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........JY

I did the same thing last year. I bought the miracle grow perlite since Lowes and Home Depot don't carry vermiculite, but luckily I noticed it has the fertilizer before I used it. I went with hatch right and had good success with it so I'm going with it again this year. Good luck on this years clutches. Chris

I have used Miracle-Gro perlite for the past 6 years and never had a problem,well over 100 eggs, only two bad ones in that time (not including slugs, small or otherwise deformed eggs that look bad from the beginning). I just checked the bag and yes it contains fertilizer. Granted, I boil and strain it from the beginning to get all the dust out, maybe that lowered the ratio to a point that it is not fatal. If you do the egg crate method the right way, the eggs NEVER touch the substrate, that is the purpose of the barrier between the eggs and the substrate. I am not saying the fertilizer is not harmful to the eggs, it very well may be and this year I will be checking bags closer but you may want to see just how "wet" your enclosure is. I only keep mine wet enough for the perlite to stick together. If it is to wet, the eggs will swell and most times, kill the occupant. 100% humidity is not the same as soaking wet. I have also been incubating at a lower temp then most but other then temp and moisture variables, this is a very foolproof way to incubate. I am not sure if they spray the fertilizer of impregnate it but so far I have been lucky I guess.