Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey guys, this is not an ID thread, or at least, I don't have a picture or a particular species in mind.

My brother has taken up an interest in Milk Snakes. He isn't really a "forum" person, and I am much more advanced in animal care than he is, so I am going to ask afew questions.

I need to know if there is a Milk Snake (or actually any snake) that matches this description?
--cheap, under $60
--widespread (found often at petstore chains)
--requires a minimum tank of 10 gallon size
--achieves less than 3 feet in legth
--unlikely to bite if handled properly
--at least somewhat easy to feed

Any snake come to mind? I am aware that many varieties of Milk Snake will not meet this criteria (especially the "cheap" part), but I thought I'd ask.

He is working on a Boy Scout Merit Badge called Reptile and Amphibian Study, and one of the requirements (8a I believe) is to keep an amphib or rept for 1 month. My brother will keep it as long as it lives, but 1 month is simply the minimum for the requirement.

I am also working on the same Merit Badge, but I already happily own a cute, half-dollar size green C. cranwelli pacman frog.

If you guys can think of something, that would be really helpful! If you cannot think of anything that may match the discription, please say so, so that we caan get a better idea of if this will work or not.

Thanks!

by the under 60$ and 10 gallon tank....
corns
mexican milks
sinaloan milk
pueblan milk
red milks
ruthveni
green anaconda
great plain rat
mole king
western hognose
garters (various ssp)

wait...one of them gets bigger......LOL....

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........JY

lol, do you think the green anaconda is in the "doesn't bite" category?
more people should keep anacondas.

I'm gonna flood my basement and buy a trio of em'.

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Mike
KingPin Reptiles
www.kingpinreptiles.com

So are these snakes widespread (Like at Petsmart, Petco, Many Local Pet Store Establishments, etc.)? Are these snakes mostly friendly? They are all small enough for a 10g (green aconda? For real?)? They are all usually under $60?

If all this is correct on the species, I might look deeper into these snakes. Please post where this criteria is not true...

(e.g. that is all correct for all these snakes, except the green aconda is too big for a 10g tank, and _____ is aggressive, and _____ and _____ are usually alot more than $60)

A 10 gallon tank is big enough for all those snakes listed minus the anaconda...
And every snake acts differently, you can't just say "milk snakes don't bite so I'll get one of those". A snake is still a wild animal regardless of where it's at, if it's in a 10 gallon tank it's just a wild animal currently trapped and it's going to try to escape. That also means there is potential you'll get bit if you provoke the snake, some snakes are quicker to bite than others.

If you just plan on keeping a snake for a little while, for starters it's probably going to cost at least $60.... and that's just for the snake (especially if you plan on going to a PetCo...), you'll need a tank with a lid that doesn't have gaps that the snake could fit through, you'll need some form of heat on half of the enclosure this way the snake will digest food better and it's better for snakes to be able to choose what temperature they wanna be at. You also have to remember to feed a snake it will cost money... You'll need to buy some form of substrate for the floor of the enclosure... A water bowl...

I'd say go for a corn snake, most will suggest that for a good starter snake. They start off small, and they can get to 4 feet but they're more friendly than the majority of the small milk snakes or kingsnakes or green anacondas.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles
www.kingpinreptiles.com

Yeah, I agree with all that Mike, although the floor area in a 10 gallon is pretty small, but it will suffice for many younger types mentioned for a good while anyway....minus the green anaconda, unless it is a fresh newborn..LOL!!

I wouldn't really recommend a milksnake for a "starter snake" for most though, as younger one's can often be EXTREMELY nervous and flighty, and will often bite and sling poop and musk more than some of the others as a general rule until they mature some. But if it is an older milksnake that has some size to it, it could be okay. But finding an older milk at a pet store for $60 bucks or less could be a real challenge...LOL!

I would recommend a cornsnake for a beginner snake for most kids.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

Ok then.

Yes, I do realize that I am not going to setup a snake habitat under $60 lol.

I think I will put a limit at about $130, though. I've paid over $1,000 for my pets, but this is my brother we are talking about.

Corn snake, then. There. Now I have something to research. The journey starts here. I am more used to fish and amphibians, so I would like to know what things I need to research when getting a snake. Simple stuff like humidity levels, tempretures, I need to know what else I need to moniter for corn snakes.

This is all under the partial assumption that a 10g tank is fine for a corn snake, no matter how big it gets.

I will do research on their care, and I will tell you guys what my brother thinks.

Thanks guys!

You can get a male western hognose as well. As an adult you should still be able to keep him in a ten gallon but something like a 20 long would be better. Western hogs are sexual dimorphic and males stay relatively small. They also play dead sometimesand will huff n puff at you it's nice to have a little personality with a pet.
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I never give them hell, I give them the truth and they think it's hell!

If more colubrid guys had balls (pythons) they wouldn't need to lie in police reports.

www.hognosefarm.com

yes the green anaconda was the joke
yes the rest will do fine
corns can get over 4 foot ,but they are the best starter snake

as for milks...you can get a pueblan ,and it is the stupidest ,meanest, wild crazy one in the world...but 237 other people with them never had a problem, sinaloan, etc,,,all milks are different at hatching....I have hondurans that hate me...(it's mutual)....alot of my milks don't like to be handled....but then again,,,they aren't....

yes, pet shops sell small stuff cheaply

yes, pet shops will lie to you

yes, pet shops have people working in them that know nothing....

good luck...read the care sheets and look at all the pics you can now, before you buy a snake ,then see one you like better....

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........JY

So, straight answer. Should an adult corn snake be kept in a 10g tank? My brother doesn't really have alot of room next to his 55g goldfish tank. If a corn snake will not fit confortably in a 10g tank as an adult, what length will they be too big (in feet)?

This may be the question that will determine wheather or not my brother gets a snake, I don't know.

>>So, straight answer. Should an adult corn snake be kept in a 10g tank? >>

Not sure why this question was skirted. Answer is usually no. A 10gal is too small for many adult corns.

There are some smaller corns out there. For example, some Miami corns stay pretty small and are 10gal snakes. But many corns get quite large, and a slightly larger cage is better. However, he can start a corn in a 10gal and keep it for 2 yrs perhaps in there. So yes a corn will work. He has 2 yrs to figure something else out. Cool thing about corns is that they are adaptable to many different types of caging. He can go with small floor area and large height or large floor area and low height. Stores carry 18x18 floor area cages with 18 inches of height. He can do one of those if it will fit (again, down the road..).

The snakes that truly fit in 10gal tanks their entire lives include Western hognose (males especially), Mexican milksnakes, Pueblan milksnakes, Kenyan sandboas, thayeri kingsnakes. There are likely others. And we all have our differing opinions on optimum cage size. It is very species dependent.
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Mark

....not skirted...my corns are in 11 inch x 16 inch Phillips boxes....the ones that are getting to 5 foot are in bigger boxes...I had 4 or 5 in big boxes and like 70 in small boxes in years past,all at once....

now...I own 6 corns and they are going this year>>>LOL

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....real total answer, get brother to pick snake,read books then pay for his own snakes...???LOL

...but I didn't want to be mean,....10 gallon tank on a dresser , the corn will get used to it, no heat needed....feed smaller meals, and if it don't eat in winter don't feed it...

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........JY

Like I said, my brother isn't the best at researching. I think he would do alot better if I gave him information personally, then if I were to give him a book and tell him to read it.

My brother isn't great at research, but you give him the pet and tell him exactly how to take care of it, he will take care of the animal to the letter, and he isn't lazy with pet care.

And no, I am not going to buy any of his snake stuff (I have enough expenses of my own), I just want him to pursue this as a hobby, and I don't want money to be too big of an issue for him to get a good start.

I'll go take some measurements at some point, and I'll see what size tank he can get.

The best way to REALLY learn anything about any type of snake is to get some inexpensive pamphlet type books on the kind he is interested in after you and him do a bit of research on the net. That is the only way to understand anything thoroughly and retain it all in your head.

There are many different books on corns, kings, boas, ball pythons, ratsnakes, etc...at pet stores and at book stores.

See, hhen you simply tell people things, it certainly isn't all they need to know, and they only understand a few bits and pieces of what you tell them. Books are the ONLY way to understand what snakes are about, and what their basic husbandry is all about. Plus the fact that you can refer to them whenever you want forever. It's really as simple as that. It's really the only way to keep them healthy and fully understand things before serious problems become an issue, not ask about it when they DO happen.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

I agree with Doug, you can't go wrong having books: they're an info source available whenever you need it/want it.

I'd recommend starting with any of the books from the "Advanced Vivarium Systems" or "The Herpetological Library". If you do decide to get a corn snake, Bartlet, Love, and Soderberg all have very good inexpensive books on them. If you can't find them at you local bookstore or pet store, check Amazon (for a good price) or the businesses on this website.

PB

You breed lots of corns.

My old bleeding heart won't keep a big corn in a 10gal, but if you folks do, then so be it.
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Mark

not when they hit $3 ....they went last year ....I got 1.3 left ...and the ultra lav female slugged out again on me...got 16 from a snopal x ultramel lav last night and 18 from lav x ultramel lav 2 days ago...second clutches yet and that's it....

as for milks....got 3 good 3 slugs from a Lk Perry Red...15 from a St Mary's Ltt....slugs from the Jersey striped line Ltt ...waiting on the pueblan to finish, 2 slugs so far...sinaloan yet, amel ruthven's, hypo hondos, knoblochi ,pale maybe yet ....starting to have more milk eggs! ...LOL....

...good luck....I like the ball pythons better all the time...you can't beat one defecation a month ...the milks fill in the bottom of the racks....

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........JY

$3 ?? Wow, lol. I guess when you said bottom you meant bottom.

Milks are cool, and IMO they definitely prefer to have a large cooler area, so the bottom of the rack is the best place. Good luck with the ruthveni. Here in the West, they were troublesome for me. Then I let them have a nice looong cooldown, not necessarily colder, and they produced better then, still hit and miss at times though. Great snakes, can get beefy too depending on the strain. My baby ruthveni fed better than many baby corns I had back then.
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Mark

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........JY