Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So I took out the female normal that I got for free on Craigslist today (the 11 year old female that is 900 grams...) and noticed her belly.

Reminds me of a het pied marker. Perhaps if she is up to weight next season I will breed her to my het pied male and see what happens.

Opinions?
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

Yea..I see it but proof is what comes out of the eggs. It's worth a shot but I would throw it to a pied...another het may not hit the odds and it carries the gene.
Travis
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LAIR OF DRAGONS

Don't have the money for a pied...though I suppose I could see what I produce this season and just trade for one.

We'll see. I don't want to stress this girl out either. She's 11 years old and 900 grams. The dude fed her one mouse a month...
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

BP's live for 40 years...11 years is not to late...yes 900 is to small to breed but she looks healthy..switch her diet...pump her up gradually over the next year
Keep in mind with a Pied male if she doesn't prove out you can market the babies as 100% het pieds.

Travis
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LAIR OF DRAGONS

I'm not arguing the validity of breeding her to a pied, that makes sense...
I just can't afford a male pied at the moment.

Male pied = $900
Het pied (buying today)= $50 shipping

Even if I don't hit pieds the first time (aka she's not het pied or odds miss) I can hold onto the females as poss het pieds and breed him to those.

I know she'll grow. She's eating a small rat every 4-5 days, so she will grow...I just don't want to grow her too fast and shock her system from her actually eating.
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

I have many normals with "markers" ... It's really a hale merry long-shot if you ask me. Just think of your local neighborhood ding-dong somehow getting a hold of a het pied female and not selling it as such on CL. No breeder is going to accidentally sell someone a FEMALE het pied. They aren't worth too much anymore but, more than the $50-$100 that this snake probably sold for 11 years ago.

I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic.

Yeah, but I've heard of people selling poss het pieds as normals.

Hell, one dude posted that he hit axanthics by breeding 2 snakes he had no clue were even het axanthic.

Just saying it could happen. I'll find out when I breed her.
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

Of course, stranger things have happened. The odds just aren't in your favor though.

11 years ago, even poss het pied females were gold.

As stated below, you are better off breeding a co-dom of some kind to it. But, its just my opinion which is all you asked for from everyone else

Markus Jayne produced the "Lightning Pied" by accident and a close friend of mine produced the Hypo Pastel G-Stripe by accident so, its not impossible, just improbable.

Do you have any pics that you can post? I bet that looks incredible!
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-Jeff
http://jefflumanreptiles.com

I've got some pics of it on Bob's computer, I'll see if I can find them. I recently had a hard drive go out that contained nearly all of my old pics. He posted pics of it on KS maybe a year ago.

I have probably a half dozen snakes with het pied markers, and none are het pieds. My het pied female-barely any markers.
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www.jasonrbartolettreptiles.webs.com

There are other indicater markings on het pieds outside of the belly all 11 het pid girls I have show all 3 indicater markings ofcourse there are 100 het pieds that show none of these as well so its really just to hard to tell but as the gentlman implied there's a lot of normals produced every year with belly tracks do you have a good pic of her top sid/regular shotalot of hets including mine have a almost wax dripping look to there sides and little letter p's on there dorsal or b's / d's etc, after these markers were brought to my attention I notice it all the time in pied hets now! Justin kobylka I belive is where I first heard of these additional markers! Regards

Can you post pics of these possible het pied markers? I had two pairs of possible hets. It'd be nice to compare them and see if they have these markers also
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Sed et serpens erat callidior cunctis animantibus terrae quae fecerat Dominus Deus...

i mean I HAVE two pairs of possible het pieds...
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Sed et serpens erat callidior cunctis animantibus terrae quae fecerat Dominus Deus...

I'd stick her with a nice codom male. The belly looks no different than most normals. If you do that breeding you will end up being stuck with a bunch of 50% poss het pieds which will be tough to get rid of.
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John Vandegrift

It looks like a normal to me. The Het Pied markers are long train track marks....connected.

Dave

I also didn't think that looked like the real markers. I do think there should have been a lot of ch hets for every ch pied years ago so there should be some out there. However I picked a ch up that had much better markers than that and she didn't prove so don’t doubt it's a long shot. But go for it! If you pick a well markered het male you have a good chance of being able to pick some het females out of the possible het offspring as a consolation prize.

After weighing all the opinions I'll probably breed her to my CH yellowbelly or something.
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

Then you are wasting your time entirely. That would put her at a 1999 hatch, and definitely not het. for pied. The first year Peter Kahl let any pied genetics go was back in 1998 (remember he acquired all of the animals known to exist back in 1994). I dont know if you were in the hobby back then, but if so do you remember what the first hets. were going for? Not a het think about it.
Will

I wasn't in the hobby back then. Only been in it for about 6 years, maybe 7.
(Well...owning for 7, breeding for 4)
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

the pied gene was not discovered when Pete started acquiring his animals. Pieds were known to exist back into the 50's and I've seen several black and white pics in some of the founding literature of our hobby dated that far back. I know of several people that have discovered animals that were in there care and presumed "normal" that were pied and lavender albino hets. Personally I think the snake in question does not have "pied markers" but it never hurts to try out normals in your collection to recessive males to see if you can get lucky.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

I agree that its very unlikely a cb known het pied female was sold as a normal 11 years ago. It was probably a good bit after that before possible het males started to be sold as normals and only the last few years that possible het females where sold as normals.

But I do think it's likely that many wild bred het females have been imported. It seems like they where bringing in a new wild bred/captive hatched pied or two every year back then. At the time I heard they where hatching 150,000 dug up eggs a year. The problem is figuring how randomly the gene was distributed. Was it a small local group with some hets that was creating all the pieds or was the gene spread evenly throughout the entire population? I doubt it was completely random but if it where if 1 in 200 wild ball python was het pied they would only match up 1 in 40,000 pairings and produce 1 in 160,000 piebalds. So out of 150,000 ch eggs a year along with 1 piebald most years you would have 750 het piebalds and 149,249 normal for piebalds. Localized inbreeding probably produced the ch piebalds with a lower het rate than the random distribution model but even if only 1 in 1,000 wild ball pythons where het for piebald they would have imported 150 hets year after year. It's a wonder if more ch hets haven't been found than Justin Kobylka's.