Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Let's discuss a topic that is probably really boring to the old timers, but for us first time hatching snake egg folks, is quite germane.
Vermiculite is a clay. Perlite is an amorphous volcanic glass.
Perlite allows air to circulate the whole way round the eggs. I am thinking of doing a 50/50 mix. I have had great success with fence lizard eggs with just vermiculite. Would appreciate experienced opinions.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

I actually used a product called "Super Hatch" last year that Repashy puts out. It's a ceramic chip and holds water very well, but yet almost dry to the touch. It worked great for me. I just rest the eggs on top with a slight indention so the don't roll if I have to move the container. Except this year I will bury my tricolor hog eggs halfway as the hatchlings rolled the others last year and I lost a few babies that way...

A few positives for me.

1. It's reusable year after year, just bake in oven to kill any diseases.

2. No need to disturb eggs if you have to add water, just pour down the side of the container.

3. No need to use weight or volume ratios. or to learn. soak it in water for 15 minutes drain through a cheese cloth, and then add to the incubation container.

4. hatch rate(not incuding tricolor hogs) 100%, I also used the room temperature method and an incubator last year.

The cons.

The initial investment is more but lasts a few years, I am working on 2 years, now.

I hated both perlite and Vermiculite, and it is hard to find with out chemicals attached to it for plants. Just MHO....
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Jimmy Tintle

Yeah Jimmy, both are getting harder to find without additives. I theink either one works well if you don't wet them too much. I've always used Vermiculite, but I think Perlite or a mix will work fine also. I couldn't find any Perlite with out chemicals. I ended up ordering a large bail of Vermiculite from a small feed and Farm store, and i think I have enough for many years to come, lol. It was only about 20 bucks for a huge bag about 4 feet tall.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

I had success with both also, I just found this stuff last year and wanted to try it out and it works for me.....I used various containers too, some Glad plastic container and a couple of shoe boxes and it worked for both but the shoe boxes lost more water than the glad containers probably due to the lid not exactly tight fitting on the container....
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Jimmy Tintle

I used various containers too, some Glad plastic container and a couple of shoe boxes and it worked for both but the shoe boxes lost more water than the glad containers probably due to the lid not exactly tight fitting on the container...
So with the container, aren't you supposed to have a couple of air holes in the lid for oxygen?
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

I actually did it both ways, air holes and opening for air transfer both work.....I put the holes on the side of the container not the top...could condensate and drip on eggs....
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Jimmy Tintle

www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=202187623&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_sku=202187623&ci_src=14110944&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googlebase-_-D28X-_-202187623&locStoreNum=1085
Can also get this at Lowes.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

What size bag is needed to hatch two clutches of mountain king eggs?
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

For the Super Hatch, I hatched 10 clutches on one bag, I only used about 2" of the super hatch per container.....The bigger the container the more medium the more stable the temps and humidity....Are you incubating in an incubator? or just on top of a fridge or something like that?
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Jimmy Tintle

My home made Styrofoam fish shipping box with germination mat incubator; doing fence lizards in vermiculite 100% hatch. I have to use an incubator because the temperatures in my cabin vary too much.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

That's perfect there Bob! Good Job! I would do holes on the side of the container that way you don't need to disturb anything...
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Jimmy Tintle

Thanks! Holes on the sides would also work better for putting the thermometer and thermostat probes in; the lid can be opened without disturbing the probes in the hatching medium. I have brand new Glad tubs just for this purpose and just need to get a gallon of distilled water (sterile) for mixing the medium and calibrating the temps in advance. Every day I check on my females as I am not sure exactly when they will lay their eggs.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

Did you have a prelay shed yet?
I like to get everything going when the first female of the year turns blue...I fill a few containers up put them in the incubator...This gives me time to check and recheck everything before actual eggs...
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Jimmy Tintle

One of my females had her pre-lay shed April 6th. The other female mated later so has yet to have hers. Tomorrow I am going to the store and get that distilled water!
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

Although I have heard good things about Perlite, my only experience was with using Vermiculite, and I had great success. Towards the last few years I bred, I did not add any water, leaning more towards a drier texture than moist/wet, and had superior results.

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Genesis 1:1

The vermiculite I have is very dry so I would have to add water initially. I have never had to add any more water as the incubation proceeds, though.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

Yeah Billy, I agree dryer is better. Too wet swells the ggs and peobably makes it more difficult for the hatchlings to get out.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

Thanks Jorge!

Yea, the vermiculite was or appeared to be somewhat naturally damp/moist. Without adding water, if I grabbed a handful and squeezed, I was still able to make a clump of it. Because of that, and like you said about being too wet, I decided to withold water.
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Genesis 1:1

half dozen of another. sphagnum moss works very well also, but imho the insulating properties of vermic or perlite is better for controlling temp spikes. trick is not to drown the eggs with too much moisture or let temps spike.
good luck
,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

The vermiculite I have is a course grind, which I like. I buy big bags of it since I also hatch crickets.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

" trick is not to drown the eggs with too much moisture or let temps spike."

Exactly! Could not have said it better myself!
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Genesis 1:1

I used to use strictly vermiculite, but in recent years I have started using around a 50/50 percent mixture too. Especially since the courser granule vermiculite is harder to find than it used to be. I know many people use one or the other, but the mixture has always worked great for me.

I figure the airation properties of the perlite can only combine to make it that much better...*shrug*

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

I've been getting my vermiculite at Lowe's in a big bag.
www.homedepot.com/buy/outdoors/landscaping-supplies/thermorock/2-cu-ft-vermiculite-82324.html
Also at Home Depot.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

Thanks,.....

Yeah, it seems almost every time I go there they are out of it, but I'll check back in a while to see what the deal is.

I guess the spring planting everyone does around here coincides perfectly with whenever I go to get it for egg incubation..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -Serpentine Specialties

Hi,

I switched to perlite about ten years ago and have never looked back. In my opinion, perlite is much more forgiving than vermiculate, as the mass of moisture is held by gravity below the mass of the clutch. Vermiculite is different, it holds the moiture evenly around the clutch. Now that is great if everything is absolutley perfect in your incubator, but for most of us, conditions are far from perfect. I like the fact that I can be a little heavy or light with the moisture and the perlite will keep the wetness below the egg mass and just surround those babies with good ole' water vapor. If your vermic/water mixture is a little low on water, the media will dry out and draw moisture from the eggs during incubation. That is usually easy to correct by adding a little water at a time to the mix to bring the level back up, but one often loses the top eggs (dry) in the process. The other extreme, and the far more serious one, is when the vermic/water mixture is made too wet. When that happens, the vermiculite will allow the the eggs to be wet, which will kill them. In these instances, the only eggs to survive will likely be the top ones that are above the wet vermiculite.

Our goal should always be moist air and dry eggs in the egg box. Perlite allows that to a more forgiving and reliable degree than vermiculite.

However, with experience you can use just about anything that holds moisture. I just ran out of perlite and had to use coco-coir for a clutch of ball python eggs. I have used peat, long grain sphagnum, sand, and paper towels in a pinch with success, but perlite is definatley my go-to incubation medium of choice. Its all about forgiveness.

Will

Our goal should always be moist air and dry eggs in the egg box. Perlite allows that to a more forgiving and reliable degree than vermiculite.
Thanks for this great bit of information!
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

I used to use 100% vermiculite, but I switched last year to a 50/50 mix of perlite and vermiculite. The key like others have said is to keep the eggs dry but have enough water vapor in the nest box so the eggs don't start getting dehydrated. For me, I add in enough water to the mixture so that it all moist but isn't pooling at the bottom of the shoe box. To check for that, I'll tilt the cage before the eggs are in it to see if water starts pooling. If it does, I just soak up the excess and wa-la, you have you're starting mixture. As time goes by and the mixture starts losing some of its' water content/and or you notice the eggs start to dimple, it's time to add some more water.
Juarez Wonders